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#229274 - 02/09/06 09:40 PM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: sjon]
TKDBlackBelt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 47
Loc: USA
Well according to sjon I practice a "traditional" style of self Tea-Kwon-Do. I dont really know much about the WTF or ITF, frankly I havent heard of them since I started reading this forum, all I know is what I see in the Olympics. Now in the olympics TKD competition I see the arms of the practitioners just dangling at the side of their body, now if I was in a SD situation I would want my arms up and ready to block. I agree with Shyro that high kicks would be to inefficient in an SD situation, and as far as I can tell there are a lot of high kicks in the WTF and ITF because they are worth a lot of points I guess.
On the other hand though, the WTF and ITF practices would make you more agile and more capable of performing a high kick in an SD situation.
Trying to clarrify "tradition" and "modern" TKD is just a waste of time, time that could be used practicing (I know what your going to say I am wasting my time and should be practicing), the only thing that matters is preparing yourself for the time when you will have to use your ability to save your life and maby others.
I have much respect for anyone that can call any form of TKD a part of their lives.
TKDBlackBelt
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there."
-John Wooden

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#229275 - 02/10/06 03:33 AM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: TKDBlackBelt]
sjon Offline
Smiter of the smited

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 186
Loc: Spain
Quote:

Well according to sjon I practice a "traditional" style of self Tea-Kwon-Do.




I didn't classify any style as "traditional". That's precisely what I was trying to get away from. I think it's more important to distinguish between sport-oriented TKD (most of what is practiced now) and earlier forms of TKD (what I referred to as "early" and "mid-period" TKD) which were more what you might call a "hard" MA. I also mentioned a fourth model based on practical pattern interpretation.


Quote:

Trying to clarrify "tradition" and "modern" TKD is just a waste of time, time that could be used practicing (I know what your going to say I am wasting my time and should be practicing), the only thing that matters is preparing yourself for the time when you will have to use your ability to save your life and maby others.





This is a forum, mate. It's things like this that give it its reason for being. Plus, if I start training while I'm supposed to be working (OK, now I'm writing when I should be working), my boss might not understand.

Why do I think it's important to clarify what is what?
(a) Because a LOT of TKD people seem to be under the impression that sports training prepares you for SD. It doesn't. Sport sparring is a game loosely based on a system that was originally used for SD, with some new crowd-pleasing techniques added.
You can train sport TKD, Kyokushinkai, Muay Thai etc as hard as you like, but it won't necessarily prepare you for someone who grabs you without warning from close up. One thing is a stand-up fight, however "extreme" it may be, where both participants know when it's going to start, there's an initial distance and only certain techniques are allowed; a fighter well-trained in one of the styles mentioned would undoubtedly do well in the unlikely event of a SD situation developing along those lines ("OK, let's go out into the parking lot and fight like men - no cheating!"). Something entirely different is a close-range semi-ambush situation.
In a recent e-mail conversation I had with a very well-known author and SD expert, he said that the current tendency is to believe that "sport technique + attitude = SD". Nicely put.
(b) Because I believe that there is an alternative to the existing models, and I know at least a few people on the forum share my interest in this.

Quote:

Now in the olympics TKD competition I see the arms of the practitioners just dangling at the side of their body, now if I was in a SD situation I would want my arms up and ready to block. I agree with Shyro that high kicks would be to inefficient in an SD situation, and as far as I can tell there are a lot of high kicks in the WTF and ITF because they are worth a lot of points I guess.




Exactly. As I said, sport TKD is a game derived from an SD practice, but which has nothing to do with SD, nor is it intended to be used as SD.
_________________________
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#229276 - 02/10/06 04:08 PM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: sjon]
TKDBlackBelt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 47
Loc: USA
I am very sorry sjon. I wrote down the wong name, I meant to say Dereck. I agree with you 100 percent. And I am kinda new to this forum stuff. My sister is a computer geek who found this forum for me. Anyway I do agree that catogorizing would be very hard to do between modern and traditional TKD. If you really wonted to get technical Tang-So-Do would be the traditional TKD and everything else would be modern.

Sport TKD tends to aim for high points rather than saving your life. On the other hand practicing to get those high kicks makes you more capable of using them in a SD situation. The chances for finding a use for them is slim to none, more then likly you will be taken to the ground and will have to wrestle with the other person, at that point you would prollably start throwing knees and elbows and punches. At this point your sport TKD would be almost usless.

I appologize for the disrespect sjon.

TKDBlackBelt
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there."
-John Wooden

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#229277 - 02/10/06 04:29 PM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: TKDBlackBelt]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

I am very sorry sjon. I wrote down the wong name, I meant to say Dereck.


I appologize for the disrespect sjon.




Should I feel disrespected then? Just kidding. I tried to recatagorize the names based on TeK9 who likes to call them "traditional" and "modern". I on the other hand like to think of them as "traditional" and "sport".

The "sport" more based upon sparring and competition such as Olympics. The "traditional" for self defense, forms, etc. As posted I believe the WTF and the ITF organizations can be one or the other or a combination of both.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#229278 - 02/11/06 09:18 AM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: Dereck]
Shyro Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 55
Hello to all,

VDJ. The length of the stance depends on the body of the practitioner.
When teaching the front stance, for example, It is told that the legs must be at the distance of your shoulders (parallel axis to the shoulders). But the distance (perpendicular axis to the shoulders) depends much on the person executing the technique. You cannot say, "ok they have to be exacly 1.5 meters appart". The longer the distance the more balance you have when you are pushes. The body of each person is different and one fixed measure can't be used.

This is not a difference in the way the technique is executed and therefore it can't be motive to say there are styles of taekwondo.
_________________________
http://www.martial-artists.info (free info on martial arts)

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#229279 - 02/11/06 10:12 AM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: Shyro]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Hello to all,

VDJ. The length of the stance depends on the body of the practitioner.
When teaching the front stance, for example, It is told that the legs must be at the distance of your shoulders (parallel axis to the shoulders). But the distance (perpendicular axis to the shoulders) depends much on the person executing the technique. You cannot say, "ok they have to be exacly 1.5 meters appart". The longer the distance the more balance you have when you are pushes. The body of each person is different and one fixed measure can't be used.

This is not a difference in the way the technique is executed and therefore it can't be motive to say there are styles of taekwondo.




Shyro,

As I said it was a picyune example and didn't have much time to be more clear on what I was getting at. This is what I mean : A walking stance in Chang Hon is not the same as it is in Kukki. The walking stance in Chang Hon is somewhere in between the Kukki walking stance and the Kukki front stance, this will have no bearing on the practioners body type (and I am aware that everybody does not have the same body type or abilities). Chang Hon has the turning kick, which is the Kukki round kick, but Chang Hon also has the turning side kick (this really has to be seen as I can not even come close to describing it in word, though there may be some better equipt to do so). Then there is also the Chang Hon hook kick which is also different than the Kukki hook kick where as the reverse turning kick in Chang Hon is more similar to the Kukki hook kick. There are some differences in the chambering positions (but not much) as to their delivery. Then of course you have the sine wave, this is what probably separates Chang Hon from most other martial arts (IMO). Although I can see the sine wave movement in other arts, it is not as pronounced nor is it taught as part of their theory of power. So as I said, there are different styles of TKD as there is Japanese Karate & Chinese Kung Fu. I hope this helps more to what I said earlier.

VDJ

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#229280 - 02/11/06 02:40 PM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: TKDBlackBelt]
sjon Offline
Smiter of the smited

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 186
Loc: Spain
TKDBB,

Please don't apologise. Really it did not cross my mind that any disrespect was intended. It's the mark of a fine individual to take the time to say what you've just said, particularly in the impersonal atmosphere that is the internet, and I certainly respect you for that.

sjon
_________________________
www.combat-tkd.com

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#229281 - 02/11/06 09:57 PM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: sjon]
jamestkdkungfu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/06
Posts: 113
I have this grand idea how about people stop fighting about something soo ridiculas seriously no matter where i go people fight about the same things in taekwondo well here is my 2 cents. I think that if you do tradiontal taekwondo that is great if you do mordern wtf or itf great but just because it is soo useless as you say in self-defense who cares i love it I love everything about the people the rush of the tornoments and you know what else I love the fact that nobody wants to fight me because i do martial arts hehehe... here is the thing people I started martial arts in sport taekwondo that was all it is sport and fitness nothing else. We have no forums no self defense we have two hand strikes. But i did not like martial arts at the time because i was never good at it or any other sports but now im good at most things active and now I do wing chun kung fu and a knew martial art called kindai bujitsu with brain welcher and i love it. Also i am one of the best martial arts in my area i pick up in all very quickly because i did only basic martial arts in sport taekwondo but now i can easily do advanced things. I think that if you need to get in shape go with any mordern taekwondo not tradional. Now i have tried almost all the common martial arts and i do not get much of a workout from any of them except my sports taekwondo but it isnt really the good of a self defense except it teaches how to CONTROL your distance so in a SD another thing learning self defense has been easy because of learning taekwondo I really think all martial arts are good no matter what i really wish people would stop sayin its useless
because alot of people love it besides ur all just jealous because us and judo get to go to the olmypics hoot hoot hoot but seriously i just hate mcdojos thats it

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#229282 - 02/11/06 10:05 PM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: jamestkdkungfu]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I agree woot woot!

-TeK
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#229283 - 02/12/06 01:36 AM Re: "traditional" & "modern" TKD ... ? [Re: TeK9]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
This modern vs traditional subject once again. Taekwondo,TSD and other martial arts are unique to the practioner. All of theses so called "periods" of Taekwondo are an extermely shollow look into Taekwondo every person has his/her own personal style of Taekwondo or any other martial art. There are similarities, however people have their own prefrences as to Taekwondo, martial arts, combat, and life as a whole. Whether or not an art is effective or not depends on the persons ability. Basically as summed up in this quote "Akido is effective, your Akido is not" the same thing is true for Taekwondo or any other martial art. Modern is a general term Taekwondo should not be limited to modern or traditional both should be practiced. Regardless of style both WTF and ITF are effective they have their own forms, sparring, self defense, breaking, and ways of practice. But the individual is the one who decides how he/she practices. As can be seen in creative foems, breaking, and sparring competitions the individual decides which combinations, kicks, and movements to execute in sparring, breaking, and creative forms. And even in regular forms the individual technique shows through. While he/she tries to make the technique excelent it is still their own in a way, however well trained they may be. That is the beauty of it all. An individual is not resticted by a style he can chose one or multiple styles like I do. All styles have their own techniques and prefrences but so does the indivudual. The person makes the style not the other way around. That is my opinion.
_________________________
"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

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