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#228607 - 02/06/06 10:51 PM Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo
padawanneo000 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 4
Hey guys,

LONG READ!

This is my first post on this forum so hi to all! Ok, so back to topic. I come from a WTF (generally) dojang that got 9th in the world at 2004's Hanmadang...out of 50 or so countries I believe. For those of you who know what that is, you know what I'm talking about. We have students that have taken gold at the state/national level and the U.S. Open. Mind you this is not to brag aobut the fortunate opportunity I have to study at this school! I'm putting all of this up front so you know what kind of Taekwondo backround I have.

As it happens to most of us at one point in our martial arts, we start to feel unchallenged with the usual routine and I seriously hit a plateau after 5 years. The more I watched full contact sports, the less olympic taekwondo appealed to me. This began a quest for a full contact style while maintaing the traditionality and usual standards of oriental martial arts which after a lot of searching led me to Kyokushin Karate.

I happened to find 1 of 3 IKO Kyokushin dojos here in Florida not too far from my home. I picked a night after work to speak with the instructor about my interests in Kyokushin. I let him know up front that I actively study Taekwondo and I'm here to see what kyokushin is all about.

He gave me a gi, I put on my white belt and lined up with the rest of the students. Everythings very similar when class starts. We bow in, stretch, etc. But once we started the core excersizes, I noticed they do a lot more hand work. Punches are crossed between western style boxing and eastern chambered punches. After hands we went on to kicking drills and kicking punching combinations. I have to say they're very well balanced in both. We cool off with some self defence, bow out..class over.

Next class is kumite night. Lots of black belts show up for this class as everyone gets to turn on the pain. We all match up and Senpai tells me to spar up with him. I try not to come off as a black belt and remind myself I'm learning something new, as familiar as it feels, and to keep an open mind. To just gauge Senpai and gauge my skills against his. Hey, we're both black belts, right??

This is when my world turned upside down...

We continued 5 full contact rounds about 2 minutes each. To win you either knock someone out or damage them until they're unable to continue to fight. My taekwondo held up pretty well but the kicking to the legs and the brutal barrage of punching added a completely new dimension to what I was used to. Nothing fancy. Just blast through your opponent as quickly as possible using the techniques you've learned.

After my 2 week trial I let senpai know that due to finances I wont be able to continue at least for a few months. "OSU", he said.


Purpose of this thread is to spark a discussion between you fellow taekwondoist reguarding how you feel your school would fair against full contact fighter. For me this was an eye opener and now I know why taekwondo gets the bad rap it does. I'm a 1st dan and the kyokushin instructor was only a nidan. Am I that bad? Certainly not. I encourage you guys to challenge yourself outside of your 'comfort zones' and HOW YOU TRAIN!


"The strongest steel is forged from the hottest flames."

- Mas Oyama

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#228608 - 02/06/06 11:52 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
Bin - wind your neck in immediately. Personal attacks are not tolerated, and you will be banned if you do it again.


Edited by MattJ (02/07/06 07:31 AM)

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#228609 - 02/07/06 12:07 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Pad,

Not all TKD is as you have experienced it..and not all karate strives for the same intensity as Kyokushin.

There's a lot of good out there....and an inordinate amount of bad....in many styles.

I am glad you enjoy what you enjoy and if you thought Kyokushin was tough...well it is. I am sure there are many TKD schools which hit hard too. You just have to find them.

-B

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#228610 - 02/07/06 01:53 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: butterfly]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
The Kyokushin people are my homes, baby. Too much KO isn't good for you though, I'd never intentionally spar to KO.


Edited by Subedei (02/07/06 01:54 AM)

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#228611 - 02/07/06 02:01 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Hey whats up padawanneo000.

Good to have some people with fresh ideas. This site is a really great site, I've been posting a lil over a month and there are some people with real good insight, and then again there are those with not much to offer as you will see.

You your creditentials your schools is very sports orientated so I can guess you place an emphasis on sparring. I myself have had the liberty of testing my Olynpic style sparring skills vs a kenpo, Uechi ryu, and Gracie Jujitsu stylist.

I think for the most part TKD does okay at least I did in my experience. Um not sure how you practice but I notice we dont focus a lot on punches at my school, but at home I have a punching bag, so I practice similar to kick boxers on my own time. I really think this helps to balance hands and feet. I mean everyone has had some opportunity to view boxing.

Againts the kenpo stylist we sparred as if we were in an open tournament, we wore hand pads, head gear, and foot pads. Punching to the head was aloud. I notice my hands were not as quick with the combinations as my friend, so I kept it basic only thrwoing the back fist, I guess I was just superior than he was because I used my kicks to keep him at bay. And I scored basically when I would do those TKD combination kicks which we are famous for.

When I sparred with my Gracie jujitsu stylist friend. We practiced the way he did, very similar to UFC style fighting only we didnt go full contact light contact using boxing thin hand pads and nothing eles. This one was tricky he wasn't very good with his hands or feet, he would hit me with some leg kicks though, he basically kept bringing me to the ground. So I guess if it was a stand up fight I would win, if he took me to the ground, he was much superior than I was.

When I was able to spar vs some Uechi Ryu stylists I found it very intersting. These guys basicaly have 2 kicks in their art that they use. Front snap kick and round kick. The kicks were executed quickly with a snap. They have some very linear punches and it was kind of funny the way they sparred, they were not lose at all, they were very stiff and kept cat stances. I was able to get around their linear attacks with my foot work and spinning kicks. Although this style is great with self defense thay have incredible circular blocks but as far as sparring they just seemed to stiff. Uechi ryu doesnt use any sparring equipment and they use light contact. I felt because they were so traditional that they lacked experience sparring other styles. It's as if they never practiced to block a kick to the head.

When I fought the Brazillian jujitsu stylist he was just waiting for me to kick high, I had to throw some feint low fake high kicks on him, to keep him on gaurd.

The kenpo guys they aren't much kickers, and if the sparring match isn't controlled it basically turns into a boxing match. Not much power in the kicks usually my friend would stick his lead leg out to do a pushing side kick.

I know exactly what you mean when you say you've had your fill with olympic style sparring. I'd like try some kick boxing like sparring so I can incorporate my hands more. However I love my combination kicking ability. It's the one aspect I will keep with me forever if I decide to swith to another style some day.

For instance if I took up kenpo I'd merge kenpo's quick open hand techniques with TKDs fast attack kicking combinations. That would cover mid range and long range fighting, maybe throw in a little judo for that in close range, finish it off with a sweep or some kind of throw.

Okay now I'm just babbleing. Like I said it's good to have a new member welcome and enjoy the posts.

-TeK

"Do or do not...there is no try" -Yoda
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#228612 - 02/07/06 02:55 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
Sushi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 93
Loc: Germany
Quote:

My taekwondo held up pretty well but the kicking to the legs and the brutal barrage of punching added a completely new dimension to what I was used to. Nothing fancy. Just blast through your opponent as quickly as possible using the techniques you've learned.

For me this was an eye opener and now I know why taekwondo gets the bad rap it does. - Mas Oyama




what´s so special about that?
it is just natural, that you have to get used to different styles. You knew before that those guys are kicking low and doing a lot of punching to the body.

What if they would sparr our rules. They would also be suprised, because they would not be able to disturb you with low kicks and you are in a big advantage.

I find nothing special about your mail. It is just the way i thougth it would sound like.

you fight WTF-rules and that is what you are trained on

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#228613 - 02/07/06 05:34 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Hello there!

I think we all hit a plateau eventually and sparring people who train in other styles is always a good experience. It doesn't matter what you train in it is HOW you train that will make the difference. Stick to your style,adapt and overcome using what you know. The guy had the clear advantage from the get-go. Not surprised at all that he faired better. Next time invite him to spar your instructor!

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#228614 - 02/07/06 06:48 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Dude did I misread your post? By the looks of the responses people are like "there there, cheer up buckeroo, poor thing, you;ll get em next time..."

I thought it was a post to spark discussion about your experiences sparring vs. other styles and to encouragage this kind of practice.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#228615 - 02/07/06 12:30 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: TeK9]
padawanneo000 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 4
Thanks for your replies, guys.

Yeah, I definitely come from a sport TKD oriented school. We do as much poomse and regularly practice self defence too. And like you, Tek9, when I get an opportunity I'm working my hands on a good set of focus mits and a heavy bag. Condition my shins when they're not blistered up too!

What I'm trying to convey applies to every tkdist that wishes to see taekwondo rise above its bad reputation as a full contact fighting art. Challenge fighters from styles that DO get respect so you can see what it is they do that wins them their reputation.

For example, we all know muay thai and kyokushin fighters for their conditioned bodies and their powerful blows but, very few of us can actually say we've had the experience of fighting one. And let me say it's one thing to know and another thing to 'feel' it.

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#228616 - 02/07/06 04:04 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Purpose of this thread is to spark a discussion between you fellow taekwondoist reguarding how you feel your school would fair against full contact fighter.




In all honesty ... very well. The more I read and the more I find out I count myself luckier and luckier. We incorporate and balance out everything from stand up to take down, to grappling and ground/pound. Of course Taekwondo will always be our biggest emphasis but our Taekwondo has so much Hapkido blended in it that it is hard to see when one ends and the other begins ... and for me it doesn't really matter.

Learning other styles and fighting those ways is what I find so exciting about martial arts. If I had joined a WTF Taekwondo school only I think I would have got bored. How can you be a martial art without punching, kicking, blocking, throwing people around, sweeping them, tusseling on the ground and pinning them, choking them or tapping them out? It just seems so natural that it should be one art ... and for us it is ... and it is called Taekwondo. Sure we have Hapkido, JJJJ, BJJ, not to mention clinches, elbows and knees. It just seems right to have all of this at your diposal.

Again we are WTF Taekwondo so we follow those parameters for requirements. We do our forms, ones-steps, sparring and breaking of boards to advance in the system ... but there is more to a system. Thankfully my Instructor also seen this and his Master before him seen this as well and looked outside of the box to make martial arts "rounded". How are you going to defend against a ground fighter if you can't ground fight? How to you work in close with punching, clinching, knees, elbow, sweeps, tosses, etc. if you don't understand these or recognize them?

The human body is a surprising things. It can walk around, pick things up, kick, punch, roll, and so much more. Why limit it to just kicking? Why limit it to just rolling around? Expand your body's capabilities and expand your brain to recognize, understand, implement and commit to evey situation that comes your way.

Back to the original question again. There are some people in our school that do just WTF Taekwondo and on grappling days, boxing days, self defense days, etc. they don't put much into it and don't learn. That is fine as each must be there for their own reasons. Others excell in some areas more then others. Some are well rounded. Some are exceptional at more then one aspect and all aspects.

I think that it all depends on the practitioner but also the Instructor and how they teach. You can go from one school to another that are suppose to teach the same thing and you will see differences. I can see this from the three owners/Instructors of our three schools. Of all of them we are the most rounded but again this is due to the Instructor as ours sees something different for himself and us. For him training MMA to prepare himself and to fight in the ring is his goal ... and this then reflects in his teaching to us. I like working the ground but understand that the stand up is just as important but if I were to one day teach I may put more emphasis on the ground work. We teach what we are strong at and like ... but thankfully good Instructors such as my own understand you have to teach "everything" in order to be "rounded".

For you padawanneo000, if you want to be effective the way you trained at this new school then you have to train it. Your Taekwondo is not at fault, nor is Taekwondo as a whole. It is what your Instructor(s) took from Taekwondo and decided to teach from it that they taught you that may be at fault ... and they may have learned that way as well and this is just a long line of missed techniques.

This of course is my opinion.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#228617 - 02/07/06 04:41 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: Dereck]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Most modern TKD schools blend it all in just like the Karate/Kung-fu schools, now the key is to sparr using it just using it in your one steps or self defense is not the same. But better then pushing someone back by bumping chest with each other to get back in kicking range.

When I was younger, we were taught to kick in close, I now Question have you found that you can hurt someone kicking head while in punching or trapping range? Now unless you are in the air and jump away or use your foot work to slide away, I've founded it hard to do little more then shock or stun a guy kicking in that close with grion open and vunerable to sweep/take downs (even after hitting them)!!!
The mind set that kicking the head is all important reguardless of range, shows higher level of skill. Not trashing just wondering if I'm the only one seeing this after stepping away looking back for a decade.


Edited by Neko456 (02/07/06 04:45 PM)
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DBAckerson

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#228618 - 02/08/06 10:00 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: Neko456]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
This message has been deleted as there is no need to talk down to another member of this forum, nor is there any reason to use such language. There is zero tolarance allowed. Bin, please consider this your last and final warning. Thank you for your cooperation


Edited by Dereck (02/08/06 10:38 AM)

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#228619 - 02/08/06 11:16 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
fmorris Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 17
What is the point of this post? First of all, just about every olympic TKD school has regional, national, and international champions and competitors. It's a marketing gimmick. Secondly, I find it insulting that you imply that all TKD will fare poorly against knockdown style karate. I've fought them, and I'll give you a completely honest assessment. They're good at sweeps. Don't assume because your school does ax kick instead of learning to punch that everyone else fights like that. If you really got it handed to you by this guy, did you ever consider it's not that they are so great, but your particular style of tkd, or you yourself, are not so great? As a TKD practitioner who has done knockdown tourneys, TKD tourneys, boxing, and kickboxing, I feel that WTF style TKD has some HUGE problems. Most of which stem from the fact that TKD schools have lost the grasp of what a "successful" technique is. I'm willing to bet this is why you got hit as well. Success in most TKD means: 1.) do roundhouse or axe kick, 2.)make a loud noise against the chest pad, 3.)run away and yell with your hand in the air or come chest to chest and stick you arms out. Success in reality, if you are using TKD,should mean: 1.) I have kicked the person anywhere necessary on the legs, body or head to incapacitate them, 2.) I have punched the person anywhere on the body or head to incapacitate them, 3.) I have used my knees, elbows or head to strike the person and incapacitate them, 4.) these did't work and I've been grabbed so I use sweeps, throws, takedowns, joint locks, my teeth or whatever else I can think of. Another thing you may want to consider that effects the outcome of fights is the education that a person has about other styles. Lots of people, especially those who teach other styles, know at least something about TKD. Did you bother to learn much about their sparring rules before you accepted a match? If you didn't, then you got what you deserved. And shame on you for being another person who makes TKD look bad. And lastly, if you train there, and someone from yet another school bests you (which will probably happen), will you change schools again? You should realize that EVERYONE who fights eventually loses. There is so much wrong with your post I'll just stop now.


Edited by fmorris (02/08/06 11:49 AM)

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#228620 - 02/08/06 02:02 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: bin]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I guess I made another person mad, Its just my opinon and its not knock anyone and defintely not TKD, like fmorris I know some tough TKD fighters that can fight in any arena because they have trained with other systems. The more you do that the more you know how to condition and what to be expect and how to prepare for it.

I know TKD fighters that hold their own under any set of rule or no rules. And can use their TKD experince to an advantage. Where I like to punch and grab sweep & stomp. They can knock you down with their kicks and stomp you.

Its how you train not what you train in. TKD is as effective as anyother MA, but are you. If that makes you mad tough stuff, the truth hurts. By the way its just my o.

Without the curse words explain your point of view, it maybe interesting hearing it.


Edited by Neko456 (02/08/06 04:14 PM)
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DBAckerson

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#228621 - 02/08/06 03:34 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: Neko456]
fmorris Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 17
In case there's any confusion, I was commenting on the original post, not any of the replies above...

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#228622 - 02/08/06 04:45 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: fmorris]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
You say the original poster of this thread has insulted you...

You WTF haters have insulted me. You think you have the "real TKD"? Please.. don't even start.

TKD practitioners bickering amongst themselves just make us look even worse. Cut the "I have the real TKD" and "WTF sucks" crap out.

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#228623 - 02/08/06 04:59 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: bin]
oldman Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
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#228624 - 02/08/06 05:01 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: oldman]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Is this like garbage in garbage out?
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#228625 - 02/08/06 05:04 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: Dereck]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Trash Bin? Trash talk. R2D2 ? Something like that.

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#228626 - 02/09/06 04:09 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:


Purpose of this thread is to spark a discussion between you fellow taekwondoist reguarding how you feel your school would fair against full contact fighter. For me this was an eye opener and now I know why taekwondo gets the bad rap it does.





Excellent, excellent post, padawanneo000.

I've been dealing with a lot of the same issues myself...and I don't think these issues are new.

The school I train at is an off-shoot of ITF TKD; more hands, no sine wave. In fact, it may not be all that different from kyokushin.

It all comes down to how you train when you spar. We use typical foot and hand protection, yet practice a "no contact" type of sparring. In tournaments, points are score based on controoled techniques that come within 2" of your target. Probably very similar to other ITF styles.

IMO, for a person to practice "no contact" over the course of their martial arts career is highly, highly detramental, because of the exact experience you had.

Now, obviously, contact is not for everyone, and this becomes a very torn issue for schools/instructors, and students.

I actually had this conversation with another student on Monday; I asked him this:

If your are never at risk to actually get hit, how are you supposed to learn to defend yourself??

There's a few black belts I try and spar with regularly----we have an unspoken "consent" for light contact. It makes the world of a difference for me as far as sparring enjoyment goes. When a 3rd degree black belt is throwing a full force back kick at you, you tend to learn to get the heck outa way, quickly. To answer your question, I believe I would fair well in a full contact fight, as would others at my school. But many would have a very rude awakening.

It's sad to say there's some who look more like they are dancing than sparring. I won't go into it more than that, but they could not defend themselves if their life depended on it. And these people outrank me by a few belts.

While I love the art of tae kwon do, I will be moving on once I attain my black belt; in fact, I cross train in Muay Thai right now. I truely wish there was a Kyokushin school in my area.

This seems like such a delicate issue; I'd be very interested in hearing what my head instructors have to say, but I'm not sure how I could even attempt to bring it up without sounding disrespectful.

This is, no doubt, an issue that has faced TKD since it became popular; it's also an issue that must be dealt with on an individual level, and has no easy answer.
_________________________
"You do not truly know someone until you fight them." - Seraph, The Matrix Reloaded

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#228627 - 02/09/06 08:57 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: MikeMartial]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
I don't understand people that bash the WTF style. What is so inferior about it? lol... such ignorance

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#228628 - 02/09/06 10:41 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: bin]
fmorris Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 17
I don't see how pointing out what they really do is bashing them? Are you saying WTF fighters DO punch, DON'T yell and run away after landing kicks, DON'T bump chests? I am sure there are some that don't follow this patten, but they certainly aren't winning any national competitions, that's for sure. I'm sure you could say that they would not do that against other styles. But do not we not develop habits as fighters? Are we not training so our actions are more reflex than planned out strategies? I think if you underestimate how important reflexive or non-thought action is you're in for a surprise, as our friend got at the Karate school. As far as being insulted, I simply resent the assumption that all TKD would fare poorly against knockdown style karate, and as a TKD practitioner, you should be too. I also don't think that this is "bickering," I would hope this kind of discussion would help practitioers evaluate if WTF rules and politics are helping TKD as a martial art. I don't think they are. My final issue is that anyone who practices straight WTF competition style should not be surprised if they don't fare well against those who can punch, let alone grab, knee, elbow or sweep. Awaiting your response.

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#228629 - 02/09/06 11:06 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
traz Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 99
Loc: Canada
I'm glad the OP saw that there may have been some defencies in his game, and was open minded enough to give another system some credit and to criticize his own.
_________________________
MMA Hapkidoist Like a midget at a urinal, I'm always on my toes.

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#228630 - 02/09/06 01:15 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: bin]
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

I don't understand people that bash the WTF style. What is so inferior about it? lol... such ignorance




That statement makes me laugh.....can a statement be an oxymoron?
_________________________
"You do not truly know someone until you fight them." - Seraph, The Matrix Reloaded

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#228631 - 02/09/06 01:43 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: fmorris]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

As far as being insulted, I simply resent the assumption that all TKD would fare poorly against knockdown style karate, and as a TKD practitioner, you should be too.




Trust me ... I resent this too. Obviously they have not trained where I do because if they had they would probably think differently.

Quote:

My final issue is that anyone who practices straight WTF competition style should not be surprised if they don't fare well against those who can punch, let alone grab, knee, elbow or sweep. Awaiting your response.




You know what ... I actually agree with this. I've gotten pretty close to my Instructor and he has talked to me about just about everything. His originally training was a combination of Taekwondo and Hapkido so he had solid training. He also was heavy into sparring and did this competitively across the world and was rank very high. His Korean Master told him to "not" get stuck just doing this and to "not" just teach this. That he had to be a rounded martial artist and train everything. That if he got stuck just sparring and taught just this that he would wind up like so many other schools that were not effective. He took that to heart and trains a rounded curriculum. He's a 4th Dan in Taekwondo/Hapkido. He became a Jujitsu Black Belt and is also a Machado BJJ Blue Belt. He trains and fights MMA. His curriculum has stand up, take downs and ground work. A lot of self defense and hand techniques. Throwing, sweeping and falling techniques. Forms, breaks and sparring ... but balanced.

BALANCE ... that is what makes "any" martial art effective. This does not just affect Taekwondo but Karate, Kung Fu .. and "every" other martial art.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#228632 - 02/09/06 04:03 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: MikeMartial]
padawanneo000 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 4
MikeMartial,

It's good to see you want to progress to a more contact style like Muay Thai or Kyokushin where the majority of all schools are taught and train this way. This is going to put you in an atmosphere where everyone is on the same page about how sparring should be, if you want to go full contact. This is the only difference between those styles and MOST TKD schools. I won't say all schools.

Now that the horse is beat to a bloody pulp...

If you're interested in a Kyokushin dojo, make sure they're IKO. I know that at least the IKO dojo's in the U.S. are headed by branch chief Shihan Gorai. Their U.S. HQ is in New York as they can probably pinpoint a dojo near you if possible.

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#228633 - 02/09/06 04:58 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: MikeMartial]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Hey Mike, nice to see you on here again.

Quote:

While I love the art of tae kwon do, I will be moving on once I attain my black belt; in fact, I cross train in Muay Thai right now.




Muay Thai ... good for you. When you decide to move on just stop back every once in a while to keep in touch and maybe to freshen up those skills. As you get older it may be nice to come back to this.

Good hearing from you again.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#228634 - 02/09/06 06:21 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: Dereck]
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Always around, Dereck, always around.

I see you made Mod, congrats! How's the injury healing???
_________________________
"You do not truly know someone until you fight them." - Seraph, The Matrix Reloaded

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#228635 - 02/09/06 07:25 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: MikeMartial]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
SORRY.

Mod .. thanks ... just recently.

Neck we are leaving as is with medication. Right bicep has a distal tendon tear but there is nothing to do but take time. The left knee which we thought was a 2nd degree ACL tear turns out to be a total torn ACL and I am to see a surgeon on March 24 to see what option for repair and then I will be out 4 months from training. With all of the medication for my neck there was no need for extra so I "adapt". I will give two thumbs up for weight lifting because without it my knee would not be able to support me like I do but since my hamstrings and all are strong I can do things that amazed Dr. Gregg and also my Instructor ... not to mention myself.

I'm thinking about going for my 1st Gup (Black/Red Belt) on March 3 so went last night to see what I could do and I surprised myself. My leg was the only thing major holding me back but I don't think I will let it this time. This way I can recover knowing I have only one more to go.

Though injuried I have been doing a large amount of grappling. Injuries haven't not hindered me ... I should rephrase that ... I have not let the injuries phase me too much. I love the ground work and look forward to more.

I hope your Muay Thai training is going well and I'm glad you are sticking it out with your Taekwondo. Good for you. Hope otherwise things are going well for you.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#228636 - 02/09/06 08:19 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
Alex89 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 427
Loc: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
My school wouldn't do great at all against a full contact fighter, except for me of course . That's the reason why I took up BJJ, some wrestling and started applying what I learned in tae kwon do into practical attacks. People in my class tend to be full of pride, they think that they are the best fighters in the world. Sometimes, I feel like tackling those arrogant people to the ground and put them on a submission. Then I want to laugh at them and say: Hahaha what are you going to do now, eh?

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#228637 - 02/10/06 09:30 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
fmorris Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 17
I tried to delete this out of here for you fmorris but I guess once it is in then it is in. Next time if you run into this problem you can delete it out but make sure you unselect everything at the bottom and it will eliminate it all together.


Edited by Dereck (02/10/06 12:19 PM)

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#228638 - 02/10/06 09:35 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: fmorris]
fmorris Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 17
Quote:

This is going to put you in an atmosphere where everyone is on the same page about how sparring should be, if you want to go full contact. This is the only difference between those styles and MOST TKD schools. I won't say all schools.




That's an assumption, although I'm happy you said "most." At our school KO's during sparring are OK. It's very similar to knockdown karate rules. Differences one would notice are the de-emphasis on grabbing or clinching related throws and techniques. We attempt to rely on our feet and fists, though we have options for when that falls through. I feel it is advantageous to be able to strike those who attept to grab or clench when fighting. The timing and distance are acquired skills, and having those skills have served me nicely when I've fought those who like to clinch. So I appreciate the emphasis on striking over holding that we use. When clinched we use knees, and sweeps, etc., but like I stated, these are de-emphasized, as compared to Karate. I think that when a schools start to learn and integrate techniques from other styles, styles can almost be viewed as a set of rules and emphasized techniques rather than a completely foreign activity. For instance, if one is going to compete in knockdown Karate, they should realize that sweeps are the key technique, at least if you want to win on points. People who are successful in those competitions will take really hard shots to be able to sweep opponents. They will score, and the person who landed the hard shot, because it is not a knockout or the person hit is good at not showing pain or injury, gets nothing. You can see how this creates a situation where sweeps are emphasized. Anyway, people who have had MA experience watched me and one of my partners spar and thought we were kickboxers. I'm not sure how to feel about that. My teacher has faced the same issues. People have come to his school, fought his students, gotten hurt, and angrily proclaimed "this is not TKD!" I wonder how that makes him feel, since he is in his late 60's and started training at age 12 or 13? Just some food for thought.


Edited by Dereck (02/10/06 12:30 PM)

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#228639 - 02/10/06 10:39 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: bin]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I would have really loved to read what bin wrote that got his post banned.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#228640 - 02/10/06 11:59 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
dicen Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 57
padawanneo000 its not the way they spar its how they spar. You even said it yourself it wasn't fancy, its just the strength of their attacks. If TKD practitioners sparred without all the gear it their sparring style wouldn't have made a diference. That being said if olympic sparring had no pads you wouldn't see certain kicks being done, like double roundhouse kicks or tripes lol.

I've sparred against a kenpo stylist and I was that impressed though it was point sparring and well point sparing is just like slap fighting cause kicks are pretty much ignored by the referees. Can't really see if you are improving your skills when you use the same technique over and over again.

I've sparred against a boxer once, now that was tricky for both of us, since our styles are similiar except what we use to hit the other person. My kicks kept him at bay but his bob and weeve skills are similar to tkd tactics moving just enough to get out of the way so he can counter. The problem he had was that how can you block a hard kick without getting hurt, by the time we finished sparring his arms we bruised to the point that he coulnd't lift them up past chest height. that doesn't mean I came away scot free, he landed enough body shots and a uppercut that had me seeing double. IT was fun.

I think that if TKD practictioners sparred with a little less padding, the bad reputation we apparently have would go away cause we have some very powerful kicks and I doubt anyone would be able to stand up to them if they weren't wearing any pads.

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