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#228607 - 02/06/06 10:51 PM Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo
padawanneo000 Offline

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 4
Hey guys,


This is my first post on this forum so hi to all! Ok, so back to topic. I come from a WTF (generally) dojang that got 9th in the world at 2004's Hanmadang...out of 50 or so countries I believe. For those of you who know what that is, you know what I'm talking about. We have students that have taken gold at the state/national level and the U.S. Open. Mind you this is not to brag aobut the fortunate opportunity I have to study at this school! I'm putting all of this up front so you know what kind of Taekwondo backround I have.

As it happens to most of us at one point in our martial arts, we start to feel unchallenged with the usual routine and I seriously hit a plateau after 5 years. The more I watched full contact sports, the less olympic taekwondo appealed to me. This began a quest for a full contact style while maintaing the traditionality and usual standards of oriental martial arts which after a lot of searching led me to Kyokushin Karate.

I happened to find 1 of 3 IKO Kyokushin dojos here in Florida not too far from my home. I picked a night after work to speak with the instructor about my interests in Kyokushin. I let him know up front that I actively study Taekwondo and I'm here to see what kyokushin is all about.

He gave me a gi, I put on my white belt and lined up with the rest of the students. Everythings very similar when class starts. We bow in, stretch, etc. But once we started the core excersizes, I noticed they do a lot more hand work. Punches are crossed between western style boxing and eastern chambered punches. After hands we went on to kicking drills and kicking punching combinations. I have to say they're very well balanced in both. We cool off with some self defence, bow out..class over.

Next class is kumite night. Lots of black belts show up for this class as everyone gets to turn on the pain. We all match up and Senpai tells me to spar up with him. I try not to come off as a black belt and remind myself I'm learning something new, as familiar as it feels, and to keep an open mind. To just gauge Senpai and gauge my skills against his. Hey, we're both black belts, right??

This is when my world turned upside down...

We continued 5 full contact rounds about 2 minutes each. To win you either knock someone out or damage them until they're unable to continue to fight. My taekwondo held up pretty well but the kicking to the legs and the brutal barrage of punching added a completely new dimension to what I was used to. Nothing fancy. Just blast through your opponent as quickly as possible using the techniques you've learned.

After my 2 week trial I let senpai know that due to finances I wont be able to continue at least for a few months. "OSU", he said.

Purpose of this thread is to spark a discussion between you fellow taekwondoist reguarding how you feel your school would fair against full contact fighter. For me this was an eye opener and now I know why taekwondo gets the bad rap it does. I'm a 1st dan and the kyokushin instructor was only a nidan. Am I that bad? Certainly not. I encourage you guys to challenge yourself outside of your 'comfort zones' and HOW YOU TRAIN!

"The strongest steel is forged from the hottest flames."

- Mas Oyama

#228608 - 02/06/06 11:52 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
bin Offline

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
Bin - wind your neck in immediately. Personal attacks are not tolerated, and you will be banned if you do it again.

Edited by MattJ (02/07/06 07:31 AM)

#228609 - 02/07/06 12:07 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA

Not all TKD is as you have experienced it..and not all karate strives for the same intensity as Kyokushin.

There's a lot of good out there....and an inordinate amount of many styles.

I am glad you enjoy what you enjoy and if you thought Kyokushin was tough...well it is. I am sure there are many TKD schools which hit hard too. You just have to find them.


#228610 - 02/07/06 01:53 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: butterfly]
Subedei Offline

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
The Kyokushin people are my homes, baby. Too much KO isn't good for you though, I'd never intentionally spar to KO.

Edited by Subedei (02/07/06 01:54 AM)

#228611 - 02/07/06 02:01 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Hey whats up padawanneo000.

Good to have some people with fresh ideas. This site is a really great site, I've been posting a lil over a month and there are some people with real good insight, and then again there are those with not much to offer as you will see.

You your creditentials your schools is very sports orientated so I can guess you place an emphasis on sparring. I myself have had the liberty of testing my Olynpic style sparring skills vs a kenpo, Uechi ryu, and Gracie Jujitsu stylist.

I think for the most part TKD does okay at least I did in my experience. Um not sure how you practice but I notice we dont focus a lot on punches at my school, but at home I have a punching bag, so I practice similar to kick boxers on my own time. I really think this helps to balance hands and feet. I mean everyone has had some opportunity to view boxing.

Againts the kenpo stylist we sparred as if we were in an open tournament, we wore hand pads, head gear, and foot pads. Punching to the head was aloud. I notice my hands were not as quick with the combinations as my friend, so I kept it basic only thrwoing the back fist, I guess I was just superior than he was because I used my kicks to keep him at bay. And I scored basically when I would do those TKD combination kicks which we are famous for.

When I sparred with my Gracie jujitsu stylist friend. We practiced the way he did, very similar to UFC style fighting only we didnt go full contact light contact using boxing thin hand pads and nothing eles. This one was tricky he wasn't very good with his hands or feet, he would hit me with some leg kicks though, he basically kept bringing me to the ground. So I guess if it was a stand up fight I would win, if he took me to the ground, he was much superior than I was.

When I was able to spar vs some Uechi Ryu stylists I found it very intersting. These guys basicaly have 2 kicks in their art that they use. Front snap kick and round kick. The kicks were executed quickly with a snap. They have some very linear punches and it was kind of funny the way they sparred, they were not lose at all, they were very stiff and kept cat stances. I was able to get around their linear attacks with my foot work and spinning kicks. Although this style is great with self defense thay have incredible circular blocks but as far as sparring they just seemed to stiff. Uechi ryu doesnt use any sparring equipment and they use light contact. I felt because they were so traditional that they lacked experience sparring other styles. It's as if they never practiced to block a kick to the head.

When I fought the Brazillian jujitsu stylist he was just waiting for me to kick high, I had to throw some feint low fake high kicks on him, to keep him on gaurd.

The kenpo guys they aren't much kickers, and if the sparring match isn't controlled it basically turns into a boxing match. Not much power in the kicks usually my friend would stick his lead leg out to do a pushing side kick.

I know exactly what you mean when you say you've had your fill with olympic style sparring. I'd like try some kick boxing like sparring so I can incorporate my hands more. However I love my combination kicking ability. It's the one aspect I will keep with me forever if I decide to swith to another style some day.

For instance if I took up kenpo I'd merge kenpo's quick open hand techniques with TKDs fast attack kicking combinations. That would cover mid range and long range fighting, maybe throw in a little judo for that in close range, finish it off with a sweep or some kind of throw.

Okay now I'm just babbleing. Like I said it's good to have a new member welcome and enjoy the posts.


"Do or do not...there is no try" -Yoda
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da

#228612 - 02/07/06 02:55 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
Sushi Offline

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 93
Loc: Germany

My taekwondo held up pretty well but the kicking to the legs and the brutal barrage of punching added a completely new dimension to what I was used to. Nothing fancy. Just blast through your opponent as quickly as possible using the techniques you've learned.

For me this was an eye opener and now I know why taekwondo gets the bad rap it does. - Mas Oyama

what´s so special about that?
it is just natural, that you have to get used to different styles. You knew before that those guys are kicking low and doing a lot of punching to the body.

What if they would sparr our rules. They would also be suprised, because they would not be able to disturb you with low kicks and you are in a big advantage.

I find nothing special about your mail. It is just the way i thougth it would sound like.

you fight WTF-rules and that is what you are trained on

#228613 - 02/07/06 05:34 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Hello there!

I think we all hit a plateau eventually and sparring people who train in other styles is always a good experience. It doesn't matter what you train in it is HOW you train that will make the difference. Stick to your style,adapt and overcome using what you know. The guy had the clear advantage from the get-go. Not surprised at all that he faired better. Next time invite him to spar your instructor!

The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#228614 - 02/07/06 06:48 AM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Dude did I misread your post? By the looks of the responses people are like "there there, cheer up buckeroo, poor thing, you;ll get em next time..."

I thought it was a post to spark discussion about your experiences sparring vs. other styles and to encouragage this kind of practice.
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da

#228615 - 02/07/06 12:30 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: TeK9]
padawanneo000 Offline

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 4
Thanks for your replies, guys.

Yeah, I definitely come from a sport TKD oriented school. We do as much poomse and regularly practice self defence too. And like you, Tek9, when I get an opportunity I'm working my hands on a good set of focus mits and a heavy bag. Condition my shins when they're not blistered up too!

What I'm trying to convey applies to every tkdist that wishes to see taekwondo rise above its bad reputation as a full contact fighting art. Challenge fighters from styles that DO get respect so you can see what it is they do that wins them their reputation.

For example, we all know muay thai and kyokushin fighters for their conditioned bodies and their powerful blows but, very few of us can actually say we've had the experience of fighting one. And let me say it's one thing to know and another thing to 'feel' it.

#228616 - 02/07/06 04:04 PM Re: Taekwondoists experience at IKO Kyokushin dojo [Re: padawanneo000]
Dereck Offline

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10416
Loc: Great White North

Purpose of this thread is to spark a discussion between you fellow taekwondoist reguarding how you feel your school would fair against full contact fighter.

In all honesty ... very well. The more I read and the more I find out I count myself luckier and luckier. We incorporate and balance out everything from stand up to take down, to grappling and ground/pound. Of course Taekwondo will always be our biggest emphasis but our Taekwondo has so much Hapkido blended in it that it is hard to see when one ends and the other begins ... and for me it doesn't really matter.

Learning other styles and fighting those ways is what I find so exciting about martial arts. If I had joined a WTF Taekwondo school only I think I would have got bored. How can you be a martial art without punching, kicking, blocking, throwing people around, sweeping them, tusseling on the ground and pinning them, choking them or tapping them out? It just seems so natural that it should be one art ... and for us it is ... and it is called Taekwondo. Sure we have Hapkido, JJJJ, BJJ, not to mention clinches, elbows and knees. It just seems right to have all of this at your diposal.

Again we are WTF Taekwondo so we follow those parameters for requirements. We do our forms, ones-steps, sparring and breaking of boards to advance in the system ... but there is more to a system. Thankfully my Instructor also seen this and his Master before him seen this as well and looked outside of the box to make martial arts "rounded". How are you going to defend against a ground fighter if you can't ground fight? How to you work in close with punching, clinching, knees, elbow, sweeps, tosses, etc. if you don't understand these or recognize them?

The human body is a surprising things. It can walk around, pick things up, kick, punch, roll, and so much more. Why limit it to just kicking? Why limit it to just rolling around? Expand your body's capabilities and expand your brain to recognize, understand, implement and commit to evey situation that comes your way.

Back to the original question again. There are some people in our school that do just WTF Taekwondo and on grappling days, boxing days, self defense days, etc. they don't put much into it and don't learn. That is fine as each must be there for their own reasons. Others excell in some areas more then others. Some are well rounded. Some are exceptional at more then one aspect and all aspects.

I think that it all depends on the practitioner but also the Instructor and how they teach. You can go from one school to another that are suppose to teach the same thing and you will see differences. I can see this from the three owners/Instructors of our three schools. Of all of them we are the most rounded but again this is due to the Instructor as ours sees something different for himself and us. For him training MMA to prepare himself and to fight in the ring is his goal ... and this then reflects in his teaching to us. I like working the ground but understand that the stand up is just as important but if I were to one day teach I may put more emphasis on the ground work. We teach what we are strong at and like ... but thankfully good Instructors such as my own understand you have to teach "everything" in order to be "rounded".

For you padawanneo000, if you want to be effective the way you trained at this new school then you have to train it. Your Taekwondo is not at fault, nor is Taekwondo as a whole. It is what your Instructor(s) took from Taekwondo and decided to teach from it that they taught you that may be at fault ... and they may have learned that way as well and this is just a long line of missed techniques.

This of course is my opinion.

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