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#227543 - 02/02/06 12:15 PM Point of the week Large intestine 4
Shi Miao Zun Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 198
Loc: Windsor UK
The idea of the Point of the Week posts is to stimulate discussion of the manipulation and application of a specific PP in actual combat. The PP's are workable within all MA systems and their study will greatly enhance the effectiveness of ALL arts. However, you must first have an advanced understanding of your art before you begin looking at PP's!

Here is a basic guide to PP attacks. Please pay close attention to the Safety section.

Large intestine 4 / LI 4 Hegu

This weeks point is Large intestine 4 or LI4 for short. It is located on an Metal meridian and is of Yang polarity according to TCM theory. It is located on the radial aspect of the hand in the first dorsal interosseus muscle. Or see it at;

http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=LI4&meridian=Large%20Intestine

The point is said to be at the high point of the muscle when the thumb is pulled into the hand. This is the superficial point however if using the point to cause pain it is best to use the deeper point which is just radial to the second metacarpal, just across from the superficial point, this point causes a great deal more pain and pressure must be exerted between the muscle and the bone, (MC2)



Striking

I find that this point responds extremely well to grabs. I have been told that it can be used in striking but have yet to find anyone who has shown how in a live situation apart from when the hand is immobilised.

This is a yuan source point, therefore it has a direct effect on the whole body which explains its very common usage in acupuncture treatments.
In addition to this the large intestine is the yang organ coupled with the lungs being the yin organ, this means that the large intestine channel and points can be used to attack the lungs. The lungs which are said to dominate the exterior, are responsible for spreading defensive qi around the body, this point can therefore be used to attack the wei qi or defensive qi directly.


Applications

As always applications are always subjective, and to be used as a basis to stimulate thought.

I have always used this point for grabs and holds when a person has their hand on my body in some way. From a direct push from the front either hand can be used to reach onto this point. The thumb can be quite effective to this point but the tip must be used and not the pad, as the point is quite small. The thumb being the digit relating to earth means that as earth creates metal in the sheng cycle this may not be the best to use. Instead try using the other hand and use the middle finger which pertains to fire, fire controlling metal gives a greater effect and it is easier to dig the finger in with the tip rather than the thumb.

Once the point has been activated the person will tend to move down and contract inward, these being the directions of metal. Depending on which hand has been used to attack the point will depend on what happens next the person can be set up so that the arm straightens giving access to the face for a kick or strike. The point can be used in conjunction with many wrist locks and grabs such as the nikyo lock from aikido or juji gatamae from shorinji kempo.

One last example is during a hand shake, if the thumb is drawn back it can be driven into this point to bring an opponent to the floor. (I realise this is not really a particularly honourable way to subdue an opponent but none the less).






Kind regards,


Sam

Ps dont use or practice if pregnancy is suspected this point induces labour

pps this point is good for pain relief ie head aches, rub dont jab.


Edited by Shi Miao Zun (02/02/06 06:15 PM)
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#227544 - 02/03/06 05:21 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Shi Miao Zun]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Thanks for taking the time to do that Sam! Didn't you have an exam coming up?

If anyone else would like to contribute a point of the week feel free....you can use the existing format or come up with your own. Rosanne.....I know you've got plenty of nasty points up you could share!!! *HINT HINT*
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#227545 - 02/07/06 08:54 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Gavin]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I find LI 4 indispensible for grappling. The Nikyu uses it and (now I'm not that sure of all the Japanese names but I'll try since most people use them) The sankyo (radial lock) also is helped with it for folks with smaller hands.

Apart from grappling, it is also sensative to digging knuckles into it, or striking with a bony part of your hand. I'm thinking it is useful for knife disarms. The point weakens the hands and hurting it a lot weakens it more.

Thanks for the invitation to try a point presentation Gavin. Maybe I'll try one. I'm testing for rank this month so I've been training all I can. I'll try one in March.
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#227546 - 02/07/06 09:11 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: underdog]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Good luck with the exam!!!!
_________________________
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www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#227547 - 02/12/06 09:25 PM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Gavin]
TimeViking Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida, US
It seems like this point might be useful in doing something such as a JKD HIA (Hand Immobilization Attack), or basically when you strike the opponents hand as a distraction or to get them to draw back and create an opening. You would probably get a much better reaction from them if you managed to strike this point while you were at it. And since the HIA is usually a fast jab at the hand this would be a great target for a finger jab.

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#227548 - 02/13/06 03:39 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: TimeViking]
Russell_Stutely Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 22
Hi

LI4 is a pain relieving point in Acupressure / Acupuncture. I see many people utilising this point in Nikkyo(sp) or bent elbow wrist lock as we call it.

Try this for an experiment, use LI4 and do the lock. Then do not use LI4 and do the lock, then use LI2 or Li3 and do the lock.

Let me know your results..... as an aside, Li2/3 are pain givers...


Regards


Russell
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Russell Stutely www.russellstutely.com

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#227549 - 02/13/06 05:58 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Russell_Stutely]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
LI4 is the distal point used in relief of toothache.

For nikyo, LI2/3 are far more effective than LI4, especially if you dig your thumb or thumb ridge under the metacarpal.

The points aren't really used in sankyo, due to the position of your thumb and thumb ridge - unless of course you don't have a grip on the hand (particularly if uke's hands are quite large).

Having said that, rarely do I consciously use any of these points when applying the nikyo lock, although they are there and within reach, because I lock the center rather than focus on the pressure points. Sometimes I (quite unconsciously) use the thumb ridge instead of the thumb tip.

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#227550 - 02/13/06 06:09 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Russell_Stutely]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Try this for an experiment, use LI4 and do the lock. Then do not use LI4 and do the lock, then use LI2 or Li3 and do the lock.




*Hazzy smoke effect as Gav reminisces"

....The Stepp Inn, Limassol, Cyprus....the first time meeting Russell! How aquianted I become with the bar floor that night and had a very good idea of what a broken wrist would feel like!!!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#227551 - 02/13/06 09:50 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Gavin]
Russell_Stutely Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 22
That was without the lock being applied Gav:-)

Think how nasty it could have been:-)

RS
_________________________
Russell Stutely www.russellstutely.com

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#227552 - 02/13/06 10:25 AM Re: Point of the week Large intestine 4 [Re: Russell_Stutely]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
*SNAP* Imagine a wave form on it! Ooooooooooooo, sir!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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