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#227510 - 02/02/06 09:56 AM WTF hand protectors -> more punching?
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
WTf has approved the new hand protectors. www.wtf.org

do you think that the intro. of these hand gear, shorter rounds, and easier recognition of punch points will lead to more punching in wtf matches?

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#227511 - 02/02/06 11:30 AM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: bin]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

WTf has approved the new hand protectors. www.wtf.org

do you think that the intro. of these hand gear, shorter rounds, and easier recognition of punch points will lead to more punching in wtf matches?




Thats what they say but I doubt it for right now. It is my understanding that they now have decided to include the shoulder as part of the "Head' target and if you punch it, points will be deducted as though you punched the head I know this is a new rule change within the AAU which is a class B member of TKDUSA, the NGB for the WTF in the USA. I don't understand why they are now allowing kicks to the back as legal, but are making the target area for punches smaller. I think that they should allow hands to the head where ever the helmet covers. Even if they don't want to score it, it can help set up a nice kick for a KO. They need to make it more exciting. Funny thing is, the better the athelete, the more boring the matches become. I have seen qualifiers that are kick butt with excitement and then Steven Lopez's Gold medal match was a big snoozefest (and the man is an absolute machine in olympic sparring). JMHO !

VDJ

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#227512 - 02/02/06 03:32 PM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: VDJ]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
I've never understood why on earth, in a point based system, it is necessary to remove the head as a valid target. We strike to the head in sparring all the time without helmets or gloves to no ill effect. It's the judges duty in competition to prevent the intentional causing of injury in sparring which is definitally quite possibly no matter how much padding they use. Besides, the naked foot is already allowed full force contact with the head in many tournaments - that's definitally more dangerous in my book.

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#227513 - 02/02/06 03:42 PM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: Subedei]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I agree with a lot of what you said. This comment I'd like to discuss:

Quote:

Besides, the naked foot is already allowed full force contact with the head in many tournaments - that's definitally more dangerous in my book.




Again I agree the foot can do a lot more damage but unlike the hands you cannot throw multiple shots to the head with your feet. I could jab your head continually causing damage and then come across with a power hand. If you tried multiple shots to my head with your foot I would simple run you over and knock you down. Hands are more easily accessable to your face which is why I think they don't want this. Plus you want to see kicks and not a boxing match.

I understand that ITF allows hands to the head but many, not all, are point sparring and each person is not trying to knock the other out ... or at least most aren't.

One other point. It takes a lot more skill, timing and practice to get a good head shot in with your foot. Anybody can throw their hands in your face ... not everybody can effectively kick you in the head.

Just my opinion.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#227514 - 02/02/06 03:55 PM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
As usual Derick very good point.

"The Competition rules call for points to be awarded for strikes with a properly clenched fist (known as “Parunjumok” or “Junggwon”). however, in recent years such points have not traditionally been awarded by judges and referees, despite the rule in effect. It is recommended to abolish this tradition, so that contestants delivering effective and legal fist techniques are awarded points. the primary rationale for what is essentially a reinforcement of an existing policy is that fist techniques are an essential, and traditional, component of Taekwondo. Moreover, they add to the enjoyment and attraction of the sport."

Get ready all you boxers, hard body shots will now counted. Let's get ready to rumble.

On a personal note, I think these body shots are going to be used more by newbs new to the sport aspect. And also by those who attend schools associated with the WTF who do not have qualified instuctors to teach them continuous sparring strategy.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#227515 - 02/02/06 09:06 PM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: TeK9]
jamestkdkungfu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/06
Posts: 113
I agree I have fought people (we get like two promotions a year at my school)who my belt rank blue and they tried to punch me to death and i simply block and counter-roundhoused them over and over they just didnt get it wasnt working (slow kids playin...)I have been training two years and still dont have red *sigh*

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#227516 - 02/02/06 09:45 PM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: jamestkdkungfu]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

I agree I have fought people (we get like two promotions a year at my school)who my belt rank blue and they tried to punch me to death and i simply block and counter-roundhoused them over and over they just didnt get it wasnt working (slow kids playin...)I have been training two years and still dont have red *sigh*




I disagree ! One of the primary things that my instructor would do would be a hard reverse punch to the chest as they charged. Most did not expect it, couldn't handle the hit (she has a tremendously powerful punch), and then it helped set up a nice KO kick (all she had to do was flynch the punch, they would react an open the head up to be hit). Used this strategy that took her to 3 international championships. The Koreans were the ones that couldn't take the punch the most.

VDJ

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#227517 - 02/02/06 09:47 PM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: Dereck]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

I agree with a lot of what you said. This comment I'd like to discuss:

Quote:

Besides, the naked foot is already allowed full force contact with the head in many tournaments - that's definitally more dangerous in my book.




Again I agree the foot can do a lot more damage but unlike the hands you cannot throw multiple shots to the head with your feet. I could jab your head continually causing damage and then come across with a power hand. If you tried multiple shots to my head with your foot I would simple run you over and knock you down. Hands are more easily accessable to your face which is why I think they don't want this. Plus you want to see kicks and not a boxing match.

I understand that ITF allows hands to the head but many, not all, are point sparring and each person is not trying to knock the other out ... or at least most aren't.

One other point. It takes a lot more skill, timing and practice to get a good head shot in with your foot. Anybody can throw their hands in your face ... not everybody can effectively kick you in the head.

Just my opinion.




ITF sparring has been continuous for sometime now !

VDJ

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#227518 - 02/03/06 01:42 AM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: VDJ]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I'm not sure what you meant VDJ? Are you referring to point sparring or hands to the face?

I do understand the hands to the face but for the poinnt sparring I am well aware that there are many schools that are full contact, as I remember quite some time back you provided a video that I enjoyed. However I still know of many ITF organizations that have not changed and still point spar. As I am aware of quite a few Karate organizations that point spar.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#227519 - 02/03/06 01:53 AM Re: WTF hand protectors -> more punching? [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Get ready all you boxers, hard body shots will now counted. Let's get ready to rumble.




Hey TeK9. From the beginning of my training we have always allowed body shots. Of course we were always told that they usually did not count for sport sparring "unless" they were devastating enough. But we were trained them none the less as they provided you opportunities to make space to kick and it kept you busy in the judges eyes. In fact my first tournament I maybe only kicked 3 times and punched "none stop". I was so frightened and this was the only thing I could remember. I was a white belt fighting a yellow/green belt and I gave him no space to kick me. He did kick me once in the throat which made my hands numb ... but when the match was restarted I bowled him over repeatedly and thundered him none stop. At the end however I was drained which showed in my second match against a much more technical green belt that was way out of my league for experience. I ended up winning the first match as I was the most aggressive ... but looking back I would say it was a pitiful win. People however thought I came from a boxing background ... nope ... just fear baby ... fear of getting hit.

I think this is another reason why the WTF did not allow so much for punches as they did not want it to be a brawl. At least in the "point style sparring" of the ITF or some Karate organizations (and other styles), it is a lot more control hits that the judges are looking for. How that reflects on the full contact ITF organizations I could not say but even watching some of those videos they are mostly using kicks and the punches still seem controlled and pulled back at the end. This however is only my interpretation and I am by no means an authority of this.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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