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#227419 - 02/01/06 11:55 PM Adventures with Forms.
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Forms are my speciality. When you do forms for long periods of time it has profound psychological affects. Some forms are physically very difficult to learn. But as difficult as they are, the physical side is very easy compared to the psychological mastery of them. To master them psychological you have to be able to go from the start to the finish with the exact same awareness as the Buddhist Insight Meditation, stopping the flow of thoughts, visualizing your opponents, with perfect equanimity holding onto the feeling of great power, and proper breath control when executing the techniques. And when I say from start to finishing I don't mean just a 30 or 40 step form. I mean all the forms of the whole martial art system you belong to. In other words, in my ITF forms which I have been doing the longest I see all twenty forms as just one long form broken down into 20 sections. So when I do the 18 forms that I know, which is about 600 steps long, I go from first step to the 600th with this flowing awareness. So far I haven't done it yet. But I can go hundreds and hundreds of steps into it before I mentally slip. As perfect as I can physically go through them, I wont feel Iíve master them until I can go from the start to the finish with the perfect psychological awareness that I stated above.

Now that I am also doing Chinese forms, I first warm up going through the ITF forms before going through the much more strenuous Chinese forms. I am tacking the 3 Chinese forms I am working on the to back of the ITF forms and plan on extending the psychological exercise I stated above through all the forms one after the other. So all together I will be carrying this psychological exercise through about a two thousand step sequence. Working on the forms with this awareness develops great inner power. I will also document it all with videos.

As an awareness exercise, when Iím not doing the forms, I also hold this awareness on every flowing motion I am doing. When at rest, my breath, when moving any part of my body I hold it on the flow of that body part. So when I do get back to my forms it will be easier to make it from the start to the finish without a psychological break in what I am doing. The bar I set for myself is very high indeed. But I feel I am up to the task. Also, Iíve got nothing else to do.

Guy

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#227420 - 02/02/06 12:00 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
If you want to talk to me do it on these boards. I'm not doing anymore e-mails.

Guy

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#227421 - 02/02/06 12:06 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I hear paper mache can be fun.

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#227422 - 02/02/06 04:03 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: JoelM]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Not relevant to the topic. Try to stay on topic.


Edited by RazorFoot (02/02/06 08:43 PM)

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#227423 - 02/03/06 12:23 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

Not relevant to the topic. Try to stay on topic.




ok, but it does keep my motivation up.

Guy

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#227424 - 02/03/06 04:15 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
In China they have fighting forms and they have showmanship forms. But I think people are very mistaken to think that the martial artist that prefers the showmanship forms canít fight. In my book of forms the very first one is a showmanship form called Long Shadow Boxing For Men. It was created right after WW2 when the present Chinese government came into power. At that time the Chinese government lifted the ban on martial arts and gathered together all the top martial artist they could find from all styles and they composed this form. I think they ended up creating one of the most popular and challenging showmanship forms in China. It is true that when you look at the techniques in the form the martial art applications are very watered down. They have you doing high front kicks with the point of the toe like a dancer, and they have many very full extension circular movement that would be hard to apply in a real fight. But they also they say that this form is extremely mesmerizing to watch because you are doing three and four things at the same time almost all the way through the form while fluidly going into and out of low and high stances.

That being said this form is the most challenging form of all to master. The body has to be incredibly limber and extremely strong to do the stance work and the practitioner has to be a master of self control. Those who can master this form has to be in tip top shape in both body and mind. So I dare say that even though the martial art applications are water down, this form is a backbone of a super effective martial art style because all the work and effort and self control to master it can easily be instantly applied to a real fighting style. In other words all the work and preparation for mastering this long shadow boxing form is exactly the same that you would do for a real fighting style. For example they have a watered down version of the whirlwind kick in the form that makes you slow it down by slapping your palm and landing on one foot while bringing the kicking foot down to knee level, yet these people have great leg strength and control over their techniques. If they were in a real mortal combat fight, they could easily start out like a whirlwind kick then at the last moment convert it into a roundhouse kick to the head and break your neck. They have that kind of power. But if you had that movement in the form it would freak people out.

I like this form a lot because you can perform it for the sake of beauty demonstrating your flexibility power and self control without intimidating people with the fighting applications. Whereas if you perform a real fighting form of equal complexity and power, people watching would start acting weird around you because they would fear your power. Itís no fun having people afraid of you. So I think this is the main point why this form is so popular. Also if you meditate on the form, there are a lot of very practical real fighting applications in it but you have to study it on a conceptual level. They show innocuous looking techinques in the form but a slight modification of it would have real fighting applications. So donít underestimate people who prefer innocuous looking forms. I think forms like this one takes as much or more training to master as real fighting forms.

Guy

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#227425 - 02/04/06 10:18 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

In other words all the work and preparation for mastering this long shadow boxing form is exactly the same that you would do for a real fighting style.




In regards to forms training, you may be right. In regards to training to fight and actually use technique from the form in a fighting situation....?
Using a form to train the body is a great thing. That is what they are for. Building strength, coordination, stamina, speed, etc.
Forms are also there to give you a method to train fighting technique when you have no one to train with. However, a BIG part of fighting training is learning how to fight. There is no getting around it. If you want to really learn how to effectively use a MA, then you must train with others. The air does not hit you back.
You may gain a slight advantage over everday joe by training your forms, but if 'joe' has trained actual fighting techniques and not just forms you may be in trouble.
It is good to have self confidence! It is foolish to boast about skill based on a false sense of security.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#227426 - 02/04/06 03:32 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Fisherman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

If you want to really learn how to effectively use a MA, then you must train with others. It is foolish to boast about skill based on a false sense of security.




I agree with you that you have to learn how to fight against others by sparring against others, but I've been there done that. Perhaps you should read more of my other posts and you would have seen me talking about how I learned. In this folder I am talking about forms. If you want me to talk about fighting check out the other folders. Anyway, when I go into gyms, I just don't beat the people I'm sparring against, I demoralize them because I can usually hit them at will always making light contact and they can't even touch me. When I check out new gyms around here by taking short memberships in them I'm so far ahead of them that the black belts there wont spar me. I donít like to demoralize people like that and I have said more then once in here how I would much rather spar non-competitively, you know, I will make you look good if you make me look good sort of thing. If they donít want to do that, and they never do, then I will make me look good and make them look bad. And when I spar, I spar with the exact same form as I do when going through the patterns.

The way I look at they should feel lucky they have someone better then them to spar against forcing them to rase the bar on the their own skill level. Instead they try to intimidate me by sparring roughly with me as if that would make a difference. I never spar rough until they start sparring rough against me. But if they want to spar rough thatís fine with me because I learned how to fight in a gym where everybody sparred rough and we wore no padding. I told people here how I achieve an almost invincible defence and told them what to do to learn it like I did; its not my fault they donít take my advice. I guess they donít train hard-core like I do.

Believe it or not, I don't know how many times I've sparred with someone and we kept anteing up the roughness until they get really mad at me and threaten to kick my ass. When they say that I just burst out laughing and point out that just gave me their best shot and it wasnít good enough. Later on when they get their senses back they apologize for saying that. Some people vent their frustrations on my car so I only drive 2000 dollar cars and drive them until they drop. In the gym I try hard to act proper keeping my poker face and treating others with proper respect and all. The only reason they donít like me is because they are envious of my skill level. Sometime when I am walking across the gym floor I see people sitting on the sidelines watching me with knitted brows gnashing their teeth at me. I keep on my poker face but they can see from my eyes that I am laughing at them.

I donít need to go to a gym because I live in a house by myself and I turned the whole house into a gym; it has everything I need. But like I said at the top of this post, I do agree with you that it is best to have someone to work out against and if you would read other posts Iíve written you would see that I have a plan. My goal is to find a very high skill level women Chinese martial artist to work out with me, even if I have to import one from China. Somebody else already got dibs on the all the Chinese Shaolin nuns but thatís OK, I would much rather find one who uses a longfist style anyway.

Guy

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#227427 - 02/04/06 06:20 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
ShaolinNinja Offline
hates silicone bubishi

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ireland
Guy, you're a laugh riot! People grinding their teeth in jealousy, importing women from China, talking to yourself because no one will reply to your outrageous threads... You crack me up!
_________________________
The world's a will to power and nothing besides

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#227428 - 02/04/06 09:23 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

Guy, you're a laugh riot! People grinding their teeth in jealousy, importing women from China, talking to yourself because no one will reply to your outrageous threads... You crack me up!




That reminds me of a cool technique I discovered on my own about a really cool way to hurt people. When I tell jokes I make them up as I go. Well one time I was really on a roll. I got this guy laughing so hard he was begging me to stop. He was saying "Stop stop your making me laugh so hard my face hurts." So I thought wow what a cool technique, I can hurt someone with out touching them. So now whenever some jerk starts hassling me I flat out tell them. "Hey, you better get your act together or I will make you laugh so hard your face will hurt." That da teach him.

Do you think I could get assault charges filed against me for doing that?

Guy

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#227429 - 02/04/06 11:04 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

I live in a house by myself




That's the only thing you've ever written here that I believe!
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#227430 - 02/05/06 12:25 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: kusojiji]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
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#227431 - 02/05/06 01:03 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
LOL
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#227432 - 02/05/06 09:16 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Hey, mister oldman, how did you do that? If you can do that it means I can post pics too. I use classical forms but I reinvented everything on how to train for them. Like they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Guy

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#227433 - 02/05/06 09:59 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
If you are bright enough to figure out how to improve the training methods of classical forms I think you will figure it out eventually.

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#227434 - 02/05/06 11:47 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

If you are bright enough to figure out how to improve the training methods of classical forms I think you will figure it out eventually.




OK, can do, now that I know itís possible. Don't want these guys to get too jealous against me all at once do you.

Your going to like my next post on forms. It's about how to learn for you self.

Guy

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#227435 - 02/05/06 11:54 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

OK, can do, now that I know itís possible. Don't want these guys to get too jealous against me all at once do you.

Your going to like my next post on forms. It's about how to learn for you self.

Guy




Oh boy, can't wait.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#227436 - 02/05/06 01:46 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
ShaolinNinja Offline
hates silicone bubishi

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ireland
Quote:

Your going to like my next post on forms. It's about how to learn for you self.

Guy


Yes, we're known to love that sort of thing!
_________________________
The world's a will to power and nothing besides

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#227437 - 02/05/06 05:12 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
First of all I would like to say that it is absolutely ridiculous thinking that somebody canít learn anything on their own, whether it be martial arts or any other art, like science, drawing, music, or any other thing. But I do believe that the people who donít believe it can be done really do believe what they are saying for two reasons.

One, that is what they have been told and have become locked into that paradigm because their martial art teachers have said that, you all have become brainwashed into believing it. But if you think about the implications of what you are saying, you are saying in effect everything you know is all second hand knowledged because you donít have a brain to reason anything out for yourself, and also that you donít have the testosterones to give you the drive to achieve anything on your own, which is what motivates one to start thinking on ones own in the first place, and also you need someone there to hold your hand to train to keep you going. You all must have been wimps before you met your first martial arts teacher; just standing there a letting people punch you as they like while you are just standing like an zombi because nobody told you that you can punch back. That is what you are saying. But who tough the people who was beating you up when you was a little kid? I bet they learn on their own how to pick on you.

China itself is locked into the second hand knowledge paradigm it is part of their culture. Just like it is in India. They both traditionally teach the master/disciple system of learning. In China they are geniuses when it comes to copying something else. They can make a high end Swiss watches so perfectly that people in a Swiss watch factory would have a difficult time telling the difference. But people in China canít think and learn new things for themselves. They have to learn that in Western schools and bring that knowledge back to China.

But Bruce Lee was different. He did what you all think is impossible and learn how to teach himself martial arts. That is the main point that Bruce Lee was trying to get across. That you evolve yourself through the martial arts, not copying someone else, but to evolve your own martial arts starting at the gut level and going from there basing your martial arts on your own physical characteristics. For example a light person would fight differently then a heavy person. A person with very fast reflexes will fight differently then someone with slower reflexes. But instead of comprehending what he was trying to say, instead people thought Bruce Lee was great and they just tried to copy him thinking that is the way to greatness while in reality the only way to greatness is to learn how to learn to teach yourself your own martial art style around your own physical and mental resources.

But where did Bruce Lee learn how to do this since he came from a culture that is locked into that second hand knowledge paradigm? I know. He learned it from the West. Itís kind of ironic Bruce is from a Chinese culture and learned kung fu and became fasciated with Western philosophy which at its core teaches people to think for themselves and used that Western mind set to develop his own martial arts. While people coming from a Western culture learn kung fu and become interested in Chinese things including Chinese philosophy which is locked into a second hand knowledge paradigm and so the Western person gets brainwashed into thinking you canít learn kung fu on your own. Isnít that ironic.

OK, now for the second reason why you donít believe people can learn things for themselves. In the US there is a two tier higher education system. The lower tier approach are the Comprehensive Universities whose goal is just to teach a person the knowledge to perform a job, and the upper tier educational approach are the Research Universities whose goal is to teach a person to think for themselves so they can contribute towards keeping the US on the cutting edge of the world. As you know, as fast as we learn and discover things, other countries like China are copying us. So the main strategy the US is doing to keep ahead is we are the best in the world at learning new things by teaching ourselves. Look at our military for example. Nobody has weapons of mass destruction like we do. Nobody told us how to make them. We are the leading country in the world in first hand knowledge. Yankee ingenuity was made famous during WW2, what happen to it?

The way they select which person goes to which tier of education is based mostly one the intelligence of the student. The smart people who can think for themselves are encouraged to go onto the higher tier. The people who are smart but donít have the ability to think for themselves are encouraged into going into the lower tier. So all you people that keep trying to tell me you canít learn martial arts on their own are actually confessing to me that you belong to the lower tier education level, or that you never even made it to a university. If I remember correctly, Bruce Lee went to Berkeley University, that is a upper tier school where he studied philosophy. And I know the exact Western philosopher that inspired Bruce and integrated into his martial art system which enable him to begin a new style. His name is John Dewey who was a Professor of Philosophy at Columbia University. Nobody told me that, I just see Bruce talking like John Dewey.

John Dewey's work flourished back in the 1930s. He wrote a book called How We Think subtitled, A Restatement of the Relation of Reflective Thinking to the Educative Process. (I have his book in my hand right now.) Johnís thought is the bases of the higher tier education. Basically in his book he severely criticized the current teaching methods of learning by rote. He said all you are teaching people to do when learning by rote is how to pass the next test. Instead he preached the whole goal of education is to teach a person how to think for themselves using the subject you are studying as a medium for that training. He said the goal is to teach people how to use the scientific method to solve problems themselves through that subject material. Bruce Lee grabbed onto that and applied it to his marital arts. And if China wants to break out of that second hand knowledge paradigm they are going to have to grab onto that too.

So because Bruce had been exposed to the thoughts of John Dewey he is the only martial art master to teach an upper tier approach to the marital arts. He was always experimenting, apply what works for him and rejecting what didnít. While all you guys are learning by rote and think that is the only way because you donít know any better. And that is why we see people thinking the martial arts doesnít work because they are trying to learn by rote a martial art system that was meant for a person with different physical and mental resources, instead of developing their own style around their own personal resources.

So, if you want to learn how to teach yourself martial arts, start out by reading John Deweyís book like Bruce Lee did. It is called How We Think, subtitled A restatement of the relation of reflective thinking to the educative process, by John Dewey. It is a classic in Western philosophy.

And then you will know how I did what you call the impossible.

Guy

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#227438 - 02/05/06 05:48 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
It is not impossible for people to learn through indepth personal study. Your point seems to be undermined by the fact that both Lee and Dewey sought instruction under respected teachers and recognized institutions. Perhaps your argument would be better made using Abraham Lincoln as a model.

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#227439 - 02/05/06 08:13 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
andy4 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 53
Hi Guy.

Do you have any bunkia/technique for the kata/forms you practice?

Which forms are you working on?

Any Ch'aun-Fa?

I would be interested in your bunkia.

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#227440 - 02/05/06 10:23 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

It is not impossible for people to learn through indepth personal study. Your point seems to be undermined by the fact that both Lee and Dewey sought instruction under respected teachers and recognized institutions. Perhaps your argument would be better made using Abraham Lincoln as a model.




Yes that may be true, but then they went off and did their own thing. Dewey emphasized pragmatism and the use of the scientific method to learn new things. He greatly influenced the philosophy of education in the US. Lee took what Dewey tough and applied it to the kung fu foundation he already learned and evolved his own style. I took Dewey's thought and applied it to the TKD foundation I already learned and went from there and did my own thing with it and I now add the foundation of the Chinese forms where I did the same. My personal fighting style is a combination of Korean and Chinese thought. I donít reject the forms like Lee did because I study them as examples of concepts not individual techniques. The point I was trying to make is Dewey gave the philosophy of education for creating independent creative thought and Lee is an example of the application of that thought to the martial arts. So too are all the advances made in science an example of that same school of thought. And just as Lee and Dewey started out from the teachings of others, so too in the martial art example itís important to first start out learning under a competent instructor to get ones bearings then master your own style. Newton who discovered calculus also said that the reason he sees so far is because he is standing on the shoulders of the giants that went before him. But he did create calculus which is unprecedented.

What undermines your argument is the reality of the two tier educational system and the fact that education system lead to the development of unprecedented advanced in science leading to the development of things like the space shuttle and the personal computer. This could only happen in the US because we have the freedom to think as we please and also because the US is such a new country that there is no tradition being passed down to get locked into like old countries like China and India, or even in Europe. The US is the melting pot of all traditions of the whole world so there is much variety of thought and so one has to think and pick a little from this and a little of that and end up coming up with something brand new. What I said about China is true, they are very good at copying but have a very difficult time creating something new. That is why China wanting to wow the world with the upcoming Olympics had to go to Western architects to design the buildings, and they are awesome. And that is also why people who buy into traditional Chinese thought think you canít learn things on your own because a culture locked into ancient tradition spends more time looking back at the old instead of looking forward towards the new like the US does.

If you have tons of money you can go to the upper tier schools to learn how to think creatively for yourself, or you can read Deweyís book and learn it on your own. But learning how to develop your own marital art goes much farther then the martial arts. Once you know how to teach yourself one thing you will have acquired the skills to learn anything you want. Remember the main thing Dewey was trying to say is that you teach people how to think for themselves through the medium of the subject material that you are studying and once you learn it there you can apply the same skills to anything else. Whether the medium of learning that skill is chemistry, or martial arts, once that skill is learned, it has far reaching effects way beyond the original subject. But if you only try to learn by rote, then you rob your self from learning the skills of independent discovery that can be applied to so many other things, like going into business for your self, and the best you can do is be dependent on others to lead you.

And so while it is a lot of fun being creative and developing your own style but the most important part is that learning your own style gives the opportunity to learn how to think creatively for yourself and that learning that creative thought is much more important then the martial arts. Even in the Bible it is said something like how the reason we worship God and give him power is because he created all that is for no other reason then for the pleasure of creating. And so too do we do the same with creative individuals in that we reward their creativity with wealth, just as we reward Godís creative acts with his worship. In other words what I believe is that learning how to be creative is part of our spiritual development and we are robbing ourselves of that development when we merely learn by rote. That is what I believe. In a Hindu religion called Kashmir Shaivism they even go on to say that the first signs of divinity expressing itself through us is shown by a growing power of creative abilities.

Lincoln was a great man but he didnít use the scientific method, he just used sheer determination. You can use sheer determination to learn the martial arts but you would lack discrimination on how to get the most return out of your efforts, we donít live forever you know.

And so you may do what you like, but I am going to do as I like too, and that is to be creative in all that I do, whether it is writing horoscopes, my music, or the martial arts.

Guy

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#227441 - 02/05/06 10:30 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

be creative in all that I do, whether it is writing horoscopes, my music, or the martial arts.

Guy




All things that you make up out of thin air?

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#227442 - 02/05/06 10:31 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

But people in China canít think and learn new things for themselves.




All right. Your trolling/insanity is one thing , but now you are drifting into blatant bigotry and that's not cool. Not at all.
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#227443 - 02/05/06 10:39 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
If you are satisfied with your level of progress and expertise enough to boast as you do, then good for you. It is impressive that you have the determination and discipline to keep working at getting better.
Do you feel that others here on the forum, (a majority of us here), are waisting our time and money going to classes and learning from teachers? Is there something wrong with the way we decide to learn? Is there something wrong in the way we seek to better our skill level and make progress as martial artists?
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#227444 - 02/05/06 11:04 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
What you are discribing is nothing novel. You appear to be a young man who developmentaly is beginning to see that there is a difference between concrete and formal thought processes. You proclaim that you are opperating in the rehlm of the formal but your dogmatism evedences that you are still mired in the concrete. Not a bad place to be, you are just not where you think you are.

Abe Lincoln lacking discretion or decernment? Sheesh.

If I were you I might be more concerned with your black and white thinking and forays into grandiosity.

By the way, did you figure out how to post those pictures yet?

Oh, one other question, Is Miami tropical?

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#227445 - 02/06/06 05:16 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

What you are discribing is nothing novel.




Yes I know there is nothing novel about what I am describing but it is to all the people here who are trying to tell me that it is impossible to learn something on their own. And it is to them that I am writing this post to show that people have been learning things on their own for thousands of years. This two tier education system goes way back to Aristotle's time where he describes the difference between the education of a free man and that of a slave. A slave's education he says is just to perform a job. A free mans education is to learn how to think for one's self. Don't try to change the subject.

By the way, I find it flattering that you say I think like a young man but what I am is irrelevant to what I am talking about. Whether I am very young or very old it makes no difference. I see that you do think like an old man and keep straying from the topic and are now grasping at straws just to have something to say against me, even trying to put words in my mouth just to have something to shoot down. Lincoln was not a scientist, he was a politician. Dewey was all about how to teach people how learn new things for themselves. Comparing Lincoln to Dewey is like comparing apples to oranges. I don't think the thoughts of Lincoln would be very helpful to Bruce Lee, but I did see Lee talking about many of Deweyís thoughts because he taught martial arts exactly the way Dewey recommended education should be taught. I have been familiar with Dewey for over 30 years.

I don't know what is growing faster, the icons down at the bottom of the page or my troll entourage. I hope they add an icon that says stick to the subject.

Guy theone.

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#227446 - 02/06/06 08:43 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
You are confused. I did not compare Dewey to Lincoln. What I said was Dewey and Lee both sought classical educations. I used Lincoln as support for your argument as to the value of the individual educating themselves. Do you have any verification that Lee was ever exposed to the ideas of Dewey? Say perhaps a quote from Lee saying something like" Wowee that Dewey sure is one smart guy". That would help support your premise. On the other hand it is easy to find quotes of Lee quoting Lao tsu or Krishnamurti who were neither western or particularly scientific. Besides none of us ever said anything about a two teired educational system. That seems to be your own peculiar pet peve du juor. Even that is irrelevant to your argument. One can either educate oneself or one can't. No one exsists in a vacuum. Think of it this way, way have you managed to ramble on for a few pages here. It is either mental masterbation and gymnastics or you are here to try to teach us. Aknowlegdeing the first would show a sense of humor and humility. The second proves that you feel we need a teacher i.e ...you. That position would destroy your own arguement.

I'm still waiting to see those pictures. You could use a scientific method to post them or you could just give them to me and I could put them up. I'd be happy to.

Oh..and another thing. I'd be carefull in regard to thetalk about your troll entourage. Everything you say can and will be held against you. Nothing in this court of public opinion needs to be proven beyond a resonable doubt. The standard for evidence is much lower here than in a criminal case.You may find yourself banished to Kuala lampur.

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#227447 - 02/06/06 10:58 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Guy,
I'm glad I could help post your images. I was not expecting you to send so many. I'll post the rest as fast as I can.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

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#227448 - 02/06/06 11:17 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
kusojiji Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
LOL!
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#227449 - 02/06/06 11:22 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Guy -

Quote:

This could only happen in the US because we have the freedom to think as we please and also because the US is such a new country that there is no tradition being passed down to get locked into like old countries like China and India, or even in Europe. The US is the melting pot of all traditions of the whole world so there is much variety of thought and so one has to think and pick a little from this and a little of that and end up coming up with something brand new. What I said about China is true, they are very good at copying but have a very difficult time creating something new.




This is the result of you teaching yourself? My friend, you need some history lessons from a qualified teacher IMMEDIATELY. This is stupidity bordering on offensive.
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#227450 - 02/06/06 11:31 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
You didn't tell us about how you met your training partner.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

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#227451 - 02/06/06 11:32 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: MattJ]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

Quote by Guy -

Quote:

This could only happen in the US because we have the freedom to think as we please and also because the US is such a new country that there is no tradition being passed down to get locked into like old countries like China and India, or even in Europe. The US is the melting pot of all traditions of the whole world so there is much variety of thought and so one has to think and pick a little from this and a little of that and end up coming up with something brand new. What I said about China is true, they are very good at copying but have a very difficult time creating something new.




This is the result of you teaching yourself? My friend, you need some history lessons from a qualified teacher IMMEDIATELY. This is stupidity bordering on offensive.




Well past the border into offensive if you ask me.
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#227452 - 02/06/06 04:53 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

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#227453 - 02/06/06 05:06 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
McOWNED

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#227454 - 02/06/06 05:08 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: oldman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Even though I have so much over kill in my techniques it isnít funny but still I keep getting stronger and stronger for two reasons. One, I now have eight forty-five pound plates and two twenty five pound plates on my vertical leg press. And I want to make it up to an even ten plates of forty-five pound apiece. I donít know about you but to me it makes me feel macho about lifting ten forty five pound plates all at once, especially since I only weighs 145 pounds. Right now I can lift that weight for 15 reps. It is really cool having your own weight machines because I can work out when every I like, you all should get your machines too.

And the other reason is because the more my body is bulging with muscles, the more solid looking are my forms and of course, the better I look, the better I like it.

Guy

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#227455 - 02/06/06 06:04 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
One time I was talking about something, I forgot what, and I mentioned something about losers and someone objected and said you can't judge someone as a loser by how they look. And I said I don't because I once know someone who looked all run down and wore ratty clothes and I didnít consider him a loser because his goal in life was not to work and he achieve it; he wasnít envious of anybody. I said losers are people who once tried to be a winner but for whatever reason they gave up and started to envy people who went on to succeed. And so the test to see if you are a loser or not is if you envy other people for their achievements then you passed the loser test and you are a loser. So that is how I see all you people here who envy me so much that you are all in denial over my achievements.

Everybody who has made significant achievements all have their entourage of trolls, even Bruce Lee, even Jesus Christ. In fact there is an old saying about it, ďEnvy is the tax of distinctionĒ and to that I add, yeah and the ďlosers are the tax collectors.Ē So it seems to me that the greater you distinguish yourself the greater the tax you have pay. Just like people who make a lot of money pay a lot more taxes then someone who only makes a little bit of money. And so it seems to me that the greater my troll entourage is, the more the trolls recognize my distinction and the more jealous they are which in a backhanded way I find very flattering. So the more you all work yourselves up against me the better you make me look and the worse you make yourselves look because now everybody knows your true nature. Iím sure if you was in the same kung fu class as I, you'd all be the ones like Iíve seen before setting on the side lines watching me with knitted brows gnashing your teeth at me. After all, isnít that what you are doing right now?

But I didnít come here to talk about or to losers. I came here to talk about kung fu and that is what I am going to do. So all you losers can make me look as good as you like, I appreciate the time and effort you are putting into it but Iím not going to waste anymore of my time with you. Iím sticking with talking about kung fu.

Guy

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#227456 - 02/06/06 06:08 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ok, folks. We have had some fun here zinging each other. But now let's either get back to the topic or this thread gets locked.
_________________________
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#227457 - 02/06/06 06:40 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: MattJ]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Matt,
I'm sorry. It's just that I'm so "jealouse against" guy. I used to feel special when I came here. Now that he is here I can't help but feel like... well... like I'm a loser. I don't know any Kung Fu at all. Crap. I'm never coming back.

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#227458 - 02/06/06 06:46 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: MattJ]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Maybe Guy would like to take the time to answer the questions I posted above?
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#227459 - 02/06/06 06:47 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
One weird side effect of doing a lot of form work from very low stances using my front leg to pull myself forward all the time like I mentioned before is that over the years I have develop huge gluteus muscles and I have noticed several effects of this phenomena.

1. The bigger they got, the faster I can close the distance to attack my opponents. When I spar people, I can close the distance so fast that people donít like to attack me, so I am usually the aggressor.

2. I noticed that just as the shoulder muscles have a huge affect on ones punching power, so too does huge gluteus muscles have an awesome affect on ones kicking power, I mean I can wear military combat boots and still I can move my feet faster then I see people do in these kung fu movies. My roundhouse crescent kick, which is what the Chinese usually use instead of a regular roundhouse kick, is so powerful that I can break a persons arm with it, especially when I put it into a whirlwind kick.

3. I have techniques nobody can copy because they donít have the gluts do it.

4. I am forced to keep my martial arts in tip top shape, you know, to protect my virtue.

5. And last but not least, make another comment like that and you will be gone, Guy.
Guy


Edited by MattJ (02/06/06 06:49 PM)

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#227460 - 02/06/06 06:52 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Sorry Matt, too late. In honor of Black History month, I pulled his plug.

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