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#227419 - 02/01/06 11:55 PM Adventures with Forms.
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Forms are my speciality. When you do forms for long periods of time it has profound psychological affects. Some forms are physically very difficult to learn. But as difficult as they are, the physical side is very easy compared to the psychological mastery of them. To master them psychological you have to be able to go from the start to the finish with the exact same awareness as the Buddhist Insight Meditation, stopping the flow of thoughts, visualizing your opponents, with perfect equanimity holding onto the feeling of great power, and proper breath control when executing the techniques. And when I say from start to finishing I don't mean just a 30 or 40 step form. I mean all the forms of the whole martial art system you belong to. In other words, in my ITF forms which I have been doing the longest I see all twenty forms as just one long form broken down into 20 sections. So when I do the 18 forms that I know, which is about 600 steps long, I go from first step to the 600th with this flowing awareness. So far I haven't done it yet. But I can go hundreds and hundreds of steps into it before I mentally slip. As perfect as I can physically go through them, I wont feel Iíve master them until I can go from the start to the finish with the perfect psychological awareness that I stated above.

Now that I am also doing Chinese forms, I first warm up going through the ITF forms before going through the much more strenuous Chinese forms. I am tacking the 3 Chinese forms I am working on the to back of the ITF forms and plan on extending the psychological exercise I stated above through all the forms one after the other. So all together I will be carrying this psychological exercise through about a two thousand step sequence. Working on the forms with this awareness develops great inner power. I will also document it all with videos.

As an awareness exercise, when Iím not doing the forms, I also hold this awareness on every flowing motion I am doing. When at rest, my breath, when moving any part of my body I hold it on the flow of that body part. So when I do get back to my forms it will be easier to make it from the start to the finish without a psychological break in what I am doing. The bar I set for myself is very high indeed. But I feel I am up to the task. Also, Iíve got nothing else to do.

Guy

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#227420 - 02/02/06 12:00 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
If you want to talk to me do it on these boards. I'm not doing anymore e-mails.

Guy

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#227421 - 02/02/06 12:06 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I hear paper mache can be fun.

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#227422 - 02/02/06 04:03 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: JoelM]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Not relevant to the topic. Try to stay on topic.


Edited by RazorFoot (02/02/06 08:43 PM)

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#227423 - 02/03/06 12:23 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

Not relevant to the topic. Try to stay on topic.




ok, but it does keep my motivation up.

Guy

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#227424 - 02/03/06 04:15 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
In China they have fighting forms and they have showmanship forms. But I think people are very mistaken to think that the martial artist that prefers the showmanship forms canít fight. In my book of forms the very first one is a showmanship form called Long Shadow Boxing For Men. It was created right after WW2 when the present Chinese government came into power. At that time the Chinese government lifted the ban on martial arts and gathered together all the top martial artist they could find from all styles and they composed this form. I think they ended up creating one of the most popular and challenging showmanship forms in China. It is true that when you look at the techniques in the form the martial art applications are very watered down. They have you doing high front kicks with the point of the toe like a dancer, and they have many very full extension circular movement that would be hard to apply in a real fight. But they also they say that this form is extremely mesmerizing to watch because you are doing three and four things at the same time almost all the way through the form while fluidly going into and out of low and high stances.

That being said this form is the most challenging form of all to master. The body has to be incredibly limber and extremely strong to do the stance work and the practitioner has to be a master of self control. Those who can master this form has to be in tip top shape in both body and mind. So I dare say that even though the martial art applications are water down, this form is a backbone of a super effective martial art style because all the work and effort and self control to master it can easily be instantly applied to a real fighting style. In other words all the work and preparation for mastering this long shadow boxing form is exactly the same that you would do for a real fighting style. For example they have a watered down version of the whirlwind kick in the form that makes you slow it down by slapping your palm and landing on one foot while bringing the kicking foot down to knee level, yet these people have great leg strength and control over their techniques. If they were in a real mortal combat fight, they could easily start out like a whirlwind kick then at the last moment convert it into a roundhouse kick to the head and break your neck. They have that kind of power. But if you had that movement in the form it would freak people out.

I like this form a lot because you can perform it for the sake of beauty demonstrating your flexibility power and self control without intimidating people with the fighting applications. Whereas if you perform a real fighting form of equal complexity and power, people watching would start acting weird around you because they would fear your power. Itís no fun having people afraid of you. So I think this is the main point why this form is so popular. Also if you meditate on the form, there are a lot of very practical real fighting applications in it but you have to study it on a conceptual level. They show innocuous looking techinques in the form but a slight modification of it would have real fighting applications. So donít underestimate people who prefer innocuous looking forms. I think forms like this one takes as much or more training to master as real fighting forms.

Guy

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#227425 - 02/04/06 10:18 AM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

In other words all the work and preparation for mastering this long shadow boxing form is exactly the same that you would do for a real fighting style.




In regards to forms training, you may be right. In regards to training to fight and actually use technique from the form in a fighting situation....?
Using a form to train the body is a great thing. That is what they are for. Building strength, coordination, stamina, speed, etc.
Forms are also there to give you a method to train fighting technique when you have no one to train with. However, a BIG part of fighting training is learning how to fight. There is no getting around it. If you want to really learn how to effectively use a MA, then you must train with others. The air does not hit you back.
You may gain a slight advantage over everday joe by training your forms, but if 'joe' has trained actual fighting techniques and not just forms you may be in trouble.
It is good to have self confidence! It is foolish to boast about skill based on a false sense of security.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#227426 - 02/04/06 03:32 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Fisherman]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

If you want to really learn how to effectively use a MA, then you must train with others. It is foolish to boast about skill based on a false sense of security.




I agree with you that you have to learn how to fight against others by sparring against others, but I've been there done that. Perhaps you should read more of my other posts and you would have seen me talking about how I learned. In this folder I am talking about forms. If you want me to talk about fighting check out the other folders. Anyway, when I go into gyms, I just don't beat the people I'm sparring against, I demoralize them because I can usually hit them at will always making light contact and they can't even touch me. When I check out new gyms around here by taking short memberships in them I'm so far ahead of them that the black belts there wont spar me. I donít like to demoralize people like that and I have said more then once in here how I would much rather spar non-competitively, you know, I will make you look good if you make me look good sort of thing. If they donít want to do that, and they never do, then I will make me look good and make them look bad. And when I spar, I spar with the exact same form as I do when going through the patterns.

The way I look at they should feel lucky they have someone better then them to spar against forcing them to rase the bar on the their own skill level. Instead they try to intimidate me by sparring roughly with me as if that would make a difference. I never spar rough until they start sparring rough against me. But if they want to spar rough thatís fine with me because I learned how to fight in a gym where everybody sparred rough and we wore no padding. I told people here how I achieve an almost invincible defence and told them what to do to learn it like I did; its not my fault they donít take my advice. I guess they donít train hard-core like I do.

Believe it or not, I don't know how many times I've sparred with someone and we kept anteing up the roughness until they get really mad at me and threaten to kick my ass. When they say that I just burst out laughing and point out that just gave me their best shot and it wasnít good enough. Later on when they get their senses back they apologize for saying that. Some people vent their frustrations on my car so I only drive 2000 dollar cars and drive them until they drop. In the gym I try hard to act proper keeping my poker face and treating others with proper respect and all. The only reason they donít like me is because they are envious of my skill level. Sometime when I am walking across the gym floor I see people sitting on the sidelines watching me with knitted brows gnashing their teeth at me. I keep on my poker face but they can see from my eyes that I am laughing at them.

I donít need to go to a gym because I live in a house by myself and I turned the whole house into a gym; it has everything I need. But like I said at the top of this post, I do agree with you that it is best to have someone to work out against and if you would read other posts Iíve written you would see that I have a plan. My goal is to find a very high skill level women Chinese martial artist to work out with me, even if I have to import one from China. Somebody else already got dibs on the all the Chinese Shaolin nuns but thatís OK, I would much rather find one who uses a longfist style anyway.

Guy

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#227427 - 02/04/06 06:20 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: Guy]
ShaolinNinja Offline
hates silicone bubishi

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ireland
Guy, you're a laugh riot! People grinding their teeth in jealousy, importing women from China, talking to yourself because no one will reply to your outrageous threads... You crack me up!
_________________________
The world's a will to power and nothing besides

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#227428 - 02/04/06 09:23 PM Re: Adventures with Forms. [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

Guy, you're a laugh riot! People grinding their teeth in jealousy, importing women from China, talking to yourself because no one will reply to your outrageous threads... You crack me up!




That reminds me of a cool technique I discovered on my own about a really cool way to hurt people. When I tell jokes I make them up as I go. Well one time I was really on a roll. I got this guy laughing so hard he was begging me to stop. He was saying "Stop stop your making me laugh so hard my face hurts." So I thought wow what a cool technique, I can hurt someone with out touching them. So now whenever some jerk starts hassling me I flat out tell them. "Hey, you better get your act together or I will make you laugh so hard your face will hurt." That da teach him.

Do you think I could get assault charges filed against me for doing that?

Guy

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