FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 32 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TomRosenberg, jessylin, play, Keith_G, LeroyCFischer
22937 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
jwwmantis 2
Zombie Zero 1
Beefcake 1
LeroyCFischer 1
futsaowingchun 1
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
New Topics
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
2015 Master Yang Jwing-Ming Seminar
by jwwmantis
12/05/14 10:36 PM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by
12/27/06 11:43 AM
Your true goal
by
03/03/06 07:16 AM
Recent Posts
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
Your true goal
by Beefcake
12/11/14 02:44 AM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by LeroyCFischer
12/04/14 02:07 AM
Forum Stats
22937 Members
36 Forums
35591 Topics
432526 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#227398 - 02/15/06 01:37 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Ronin1966]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
One school I "ran" from used "bo's" that were 5' mop handles with colored plastic flagging tied to the ends. It's pretty when you twirl it. I'm lying though. This was my first school and it took me a year to leave. I kept believing that our waving the mop handles in local demo's was just the prelude to really learning "something". It wasn't.

An alternative to schools that make you "run" for the door are those that might make you just exit pretty quick.

Telltales: having no practice (kumi) bo's, seeing toothpick bo's, all kata and no sparring play, no weapon contact (not even the lightest sense of kumite excluding even bo/bo and mixed weapon line drills).

My personal opinion is that weapons are just too much fun to play with, to give it all up for some dry as dust pure kata program. Weapons are meant to be played with, just like kids learn to play baseball and softball - throwing it back and forth.

Top
#227399 - 02/17/06 12:54 AM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Joss]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Weapon practice should NOT be labeled as 'PLAY'. Weapons should be respected as WEAPONS that have the potential to seriously hurt the practitioner should he ever not respect it. The second you dont respect a weapon for what it can do, you get hurt. You wouldnt let kids play with loaded guns would you? And yes Traditional weapons kata are not dusty relics. They are just a profound and full of knowledge as any empty hand kata if you take the time to study them.
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

Top
#227400 - 02/17/06 08:46 AM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Chatan1979]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Sorry if I struck a nerve Chatan. I do not disagree with anything you said. I suspect we simply have different perspectives.

If the word "play" is offensive, substitute "use with thorough enjoyment in a safe and controlled manner".

Additionally, I criticized programs that ONLY do kata, not the kata themselves. Kata without kumite is nonsense, like playing baseball with no ball.

I am extremely fortunate to be in a small (four person) dojo of mature (older) adults who have curiosity and skill, but almost no egos. Our sparring is spirited but controlled and always a pleasure. We often consider it play. This unique situation probably leaves me ignorant of the challenges that children, teens and immature adults create with weapons.

Top
#227401 - 02/17/06 09:43 AM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Joss]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Ah okay i see where you were going then. It sounds like we come from Similar kobudo schools then. We work about 40 traditional kobujutsu kata. We do kumite, and kitachi as well as breaking down the kata with bunkai and applications. I apologize if i came on too strong. I do agree with your statement about only doing kata. Its always entertaining to see someone who only does kata and thinks that they are competent with the weapon until they actually make contact with another weapon in kumite, and the weapon flies out of their hands. tameshirwari and tameshirgiri are absolutely necessary to understanding traditional weapons.
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

Top
#227402 - 02/17/06 12:49 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Chatan1979]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
"It's always entertaining to see someone who only does kata and thinks that they are competent with the weapon until they actually make contact with another weapon in kumite, and the weapon flies out of their hands."

Yes, exactly so. Thank you for your patience with me.

I study Ryukyu Hon Kenpo-Kobujutsu, in a remote outpost of the Kriegish organization. Our local teacher is sincerely jutsu oriented so we spend much time on bunkai and kumite, as well as kata.

Top
#227403 - 02/17/06 04:41 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Chatan1979]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
HelloChatan1979:

<<We work about 40 traditional kobujutsu kata.

Wow....

In some respects for ME, that too could, could mind you be a potential ~warning bell~. Too many kata... could be nutricious "succatash" or might just be junk food... ahhh how to tell?!?!? (Point of personal interest, what the blazes does your arts syllibus look like???? X Bo, X Sai, X Kama, X Tonfa, X Oar, etc. how does that break out???)

<< kitachi tameshirwari and tameshirgiri

<SIGH> My meager Japanese has its limits I fear.... these terms mean what again???

J

Top
#227404 - 02/17/06 04:44 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Chatan1979]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Again Chatan1979:

As a personal matter, and I realize its solely my bias/impression, I am VERY, very leery for example of anyplace which teaches the Japanese katana (whether kenjutsu or iaido, or ???). And while any dojo would be relatively easy to track down in terms of its lineage being a bone-fide ryuha, qualified instructors etc., I have meaningful doubts of anybody simply opening up a store front ~in town~ and simply hanging out a shingle teaching I don't know... an Itten or Shinkage lineage instructor? I am sure you get my gist....

Doing so would fly in the face of everything I've ever read/understood in terms of arts and heritage of the professional Japanese warriors. I am cognizant that Iaido is a different creature than kenjutsu in some respects, but a place where weapons instruction is centered around a katana would, (perhaps could is a better way to phrase it...) be a huge potential warning sign...

Am I in error in this very generic perception????

J

Top
#227405 - 02/17/06 05:48 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Ronin1966]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
The system of Kobujutsu i study is called Nintai Fukutsu ryu Kobujutsu. The idea behind all the kata is that we are preserving these kata for research. The curriculum is very dificult. BUt on average its about 3 kata per rank. By shodan you are comepetent in about 25 or so.
I do about 25 of the kata myself but really only focus on a few for pure kata study (i.e bunkai, zanshin, oyo, kakushi, etc). Like I said the study of so many kata is in order to preserve them for further study.
At white belt you start learning bo and one kata
at yellow, you learn a second bo form and pick up sai and one sai kata,
orange belt is bo, sai, and starting nunchaku,
green is bo, sai, nunchaku, tonfa,
blue we start kama
we have 3 degrees of brown belt in which we pick up a few more kata for the above mentioned weapons, and also start studying Eku, nuntie, and Tekko.
The higher dan ranks are reserved for studying such weapons as rochin and tinbe, Kusurigama, and surichin.

I dont want all the kata to make it sound like we just race through the motions in order to get the next rank. on average it takes about 7 or more years to get to shodan. So the student is spending time learning not only kata, but the anatomy of combat, kumite, bunkai, proper weapon handling, distancing, timing, strategies of combat I.e go no sen, sen no sne, tai no sen, and their tactics such as Suriage waza, katsugi waza, harai waza and etc.
It is a very very thorough study of weapons. The system itself blends Matayoshi and Ryukyu kobudo. So one of the otehr reasons for so many kata is that we do kata from both systems. I would be happy to post the link to our site, however it is currently unavailable. My sensei is trying to preserve ryukyu kobudo kata in a similar fashion as Shinken Taira Sensei. I am always happey to answer any questions.
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

Top
#227406 - 02/17/06 05:50 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Joss]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Quote:

"It's always entertaining to see someone who only does kata and thinks that they are competent with the weapon until they actually make contact with another weapon in kumite, and the weapon flies out of their hands."

Yes, exactly so. Thank you for your patience with me.

I study Ryukyu Hon Kenpo-Kobujutsu, in a remote outpost of the Kriegish organization. Our local teacher is sincerely jutsu oriented so we spend much time on bunkai and kumite, as well as kata.



I have good friends who live in Savanah. I visit them about once a year. Could you give me some more info about your school? im always interested in observing other systems, especially with regard to weapons training.
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

Top
#227407 - 02/17/06 09:19 PM Re: RUN for the door....... [Re: Chatan1979]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Chatan, I replied by PM.

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga