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#226484 - 02/04/06 08:01 AM Re: SIDEKICKS [Re: TeK9]
dicen Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 57
yes everyone agrees the sidekick is a powerful kick but in sparring it is easily countered by either moving out of the way of it or by rolling it off your body there by adding his momentum into your own parachagi (sp).

Now in a self defense situation a side kick can be used to cause alot of dmg but then again everyone knows that :P

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#226485 - 02/06/06 12:42 AM Re: SIDEKICKS [Re: dicen]
nowayaswaylee Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Washington
sidekicks are personlly my fav kick
in sparring you just have to set it up.
if your opp always backs up when you sidekick
over slide your slide when you sidekick and catch im with that
Punch high, sidekick mid
it takes awhile to get good with sidekick but it is worth it!

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#226486 - 02/06/06 08:42 PM Re: SIDEKICKS [Re: Subedei]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Quote:

My biggest problem with olympic style is the bouncing, what's with the bouncing?





I've been thinking about this, the bouncing and the foot work is what distinguishes the new from the old. It isn't the overall difference but it's part of why the newer kicks are able to be done faster. The bouncing gives momment to attack particularly in combinations. The modern way of executing kicks using the hip as your power soucrce and the short stances that allow a forward moment it what makes different from the basic way of practicing kicks.

For instance if you were to a combination of kicks using alternate foot work for: round kick, round kick, axe kick.

round kick, round kick, back kick.

round kick, round kick, nara bum(turning in step round kick)


You would be able to see the difference between the old way of doing these which is more of a flat fooded way. And the new way which is used for WTF sparring. the bouncing isn't nessassary for defense or counter attacks only when moving forward.

So the old way of kicking is slower, more powerful but you telegraph more.

The new way the kicks are disguised more, they are faster, more mobile, versatile but with less power.

It's harder to learn the new way of doing kicks than it is the old way. I started traditional tkd first then when to sport tkd, took me 3 months to learn the basic kicks again.

Out of the four basic kicks: Front, Round, Side, Back.
The hardest to learn in the new style is the round kick.

In the old style of TKD the side kick is probably the hardest to learn.

I could explain why, but the only way a person can really know is by actually doing it.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#226487 - 02/06/06 10:37 PM Bouncing [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I have found that the bouncing is individually specific. Some bounce high which I have seen can work against you as you can become a target when too high. Light movement of feet back and forth, shifty of balance and weight is the way I see some doing it. Others I see stand still and are very calculative; always watching.

You don't have to bounce to be quick or to move. Short shuffles back, forward or to the side work just as effectively. You move like you have something between your legs that is holding them in one position. You can't move them further apart nor can you move them closer. Short shuffling is very successful. Quick steps to the side or on angles work well too.

Bouncing can help hide what you are going to do but only so long till somebody figures you out ... we are of course creatures of habit. There are other ways of doing this as well such as kicks such as cut kicks, attacking spin return kicks, fakes, etc. You almost need to treat each person you are up against differently because if you get stuck doing the same stuff ... again you will be easily figured out.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#226488 - 02/07/06 02:09 AM Re: Bouncing [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
D I was refferning to shuffling and small movements when I refer to bouncing.

The only time I do a bouncing motion is when I am attacking. This is because you have to in order to maintain speed. The old way you dont have to bounce in order to attack, but you don't have that speed.

When I spar I sit still because I basically am a counter fighter, I rarely attack first. Have you ever done a cut kick without bouncing? It is very difficult and feels unnatural. To make sure a cut kick is done with the lead leg and is meant to calculate the distance, nullify an opponents attack or, set up a combination attack of your own. But it's generally not done with power, and speed is needed in order to use it. This speed I get from the bounce.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#226489 - 02/07/06 02:58 PM Re: Bouncing [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I prefer the cut kick starting with the back leg. I don't use it to judge distance such as yourself but throw it out like I'm going to round house and then almost like a double but with a fake ... slam them with the other leg ... and with power. With this type of cut kick I can generate good power and speed and I'd have to say it is my favorite kick of all.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#226490 - 02/08/06 06:39 AM Re: Bouncing [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Oh my bad, Dereck, I thought you meant lead leg cut kick, thats the one I was referring to. Yea, I don't need to bounce when throwing the rear leg cut kick, just for the lead leg one.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#226491 - 02/08/06 11:52 AM Re: Bouncing [Re: TeK9]
ikklehen Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 115
Loc: U.K.
I'm little and light so I kinda do abit of bounce but lots of very small skippy running type moves. Then stand still some times. I like to keep the opponent confused. Then my guards change but still cover in a stand off. It seems to work for me.
I like side kicks, but back kicks and reverse turning hooking kicks are good for me when I get caught up in the mangle! But I have alot to learn yet, just getting comfy with some techniques before they become stronger and faster.
Though none of this would be any good without a brain!!! xxx
_________________________
Wax on... ...Wax off

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#226492 - 02/08/06 12:26 PM Re: SIDEKICKS [Re: TeK9]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

My biggest problem with olympic style is the bouncing, what's with the bouncing?




I myself have radically changed my views on bouncing as I have progressed in TKD, indeed I have kind of see-sawed. By the way, my answer will be in regard to Chang-hon TKD.

When I began TKD, I never used bouncing, because I felt it got in the way of my sparring. My kicks were not particularly developed, fast or powerful, and I certainly was not that flexible, so bouncing was one more thing to worry about. It is difficult to think about footwork, when you're not sure what to do once you have entered range.

After a year of sparring, I had started to not bounce, but I was certainly very mobile. I would almost dance around my opponent, using side-kicks, which (if I do say so myself) have always been very good. The problem was, that many people would be able to take me out by charging down my side-kick and overwhelming me with punches (punches allowed to the head remember). I had alot of speed and was generally pretty fit, so I coulod go on doing this movement throughout the bout.

I then went through a phase of stopping this movement completely. I felt that there was no point in moving if it was not absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, as a quick sparrer this seems a bit silly, since I should use my speed, rather than ignoring it by staying sedentary.

My style now, is a mostly countering style. I move a fair amount, but would not call it bouncing, I am just trying to fool my opponent and make him misjudge the fighting range, and thus being able to hit him with little movement. I find this allows me to stay strong- I have a much wider stance than are found in WTF sparring, indeed it is closer to a boxer's- while retaining my speed. A comprimise if you will.

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#226493 - 02/08/06 05:21 PM Re: SIDEKICKS [Re: Supremor]
Seraph Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 4
Loc: Florida, USA
I generally bounce only when speed is necessary to initiate the first kick in a combo, if my opponent is fully offensive, I generally stay fairly flat footed and look for a counter opportunity. If It's necessary for me to go on the offensive then I definitely start bouncing to make sure that I will have enough speed to be able to make contact with the initial technique.
_________________________
"Faith is confidence in that which cannot be seen"

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