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#226270 - 01/29/06 12:20 AM meaning of kung fu
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
i've been reading this in alot of y'alls posts that kung fu
partioners have takin out 3 people at a time, and that is because kung fu is meant to teach the partioner to deal with more then one person at a time. back in the day kung fu master were known to take up to 90 people at a time with no problem.

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#226271 - 01/29/06 04:28 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: RyuuJitsu]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Chinese is contextual language. The same word can mean slightly different things, depending on the context in which it is used. In the case of gongfu, the broad translations can mean skill/art/work/effort/labour.

If you look at the Chinese pictograms here [image]http://www.tigernt.com/hz/gb2gif.cgi?chinese=b9a6b7f2&tr_bg=1[/image]
for the first word "gong", it's made up of 2 radicals, the first part meaning work, and the second part meaning strength. So "gong" implies doing work with strength.

The second word "fu" means labourer, e.g. "nong fu" refers to someone who labours in the field.

So "gong fu" on a simplistic level denotes someone who is a skilled labourer. In contextual usage, gongfu can imply a level of skill or ability. When you say someone has "gongfu", it implies that the person has a certain level of skill.

As for someone taking on 90 people at once, his "gongfu" must be of a very high level.

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#226272 - 01/29/06 10:49 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: RyuuJitsu]
kusojiji Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

back in the day kung fu master were known to take up to 90 people at a time with no problem.




LOL!

Was that 'Jawbone of an ass-fu'?
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#226273 - 01/29/06 12:52 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: kusojiji]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
90 people! Thats insane. And Id say rather impossible. If your dealing with more than four your about to get beat down badly unless you can bluff the others out by hurting one really badly. 90 people! Come on, why would you even post something like that? Besides being far fetched fantasy its also irresponsible. There are impressionable minds at this site that have access to everything you write. Keep that in mind before some over imaginative 12 year old goes out and challenges thirty or so people and gets dominated because someone here said its possible.
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#226274 - 01/29/06 12:53 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Chen Zen]
kusojiji Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
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Quote:

90 people! Thats insane. And Id say rather impossible. If your dealing with more than four your about to get beat down badly unless you can bluff the others out by hurting one really badly. 90 people! Come on, why would you even post something like that? Besides being far fetched fantasy its also irresponsible. There are impressionable minds at this site that have access to everything you write. Keep that in mind before some over imaginative 12 year old goes out and challenges thirty or so people and gets dominated because someone here said its possible.




Very good point.
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#226275 - 01/29/06 02:22 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Natron Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 56
Loc: Illinois, USA
wow...

You can't take on 90 people, period. Maybe if you were in a well fortified position with a machine gun or in a tank or something, but unarmed is just ridiculous. The value you add to this site with posts like this and "iron palm training makes you go blind" is immeasurable. Looking forward to your next post about how to shoot chi balls through a cinder block.

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#226276 - 01/29/06 04:04 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: eyrie]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

Chinese is contextual language. The same word can mean slightly different things, depending on the context in which it is used. In the case of gongfu, the broad translations can mean skill/art/work/effort/labour.




Yes that is also my understanding of gongfu, or kungfu. But now because so many people in the west think of kungfu as Chinese martial arts, it has come to assumed that meaning. Maybe Bruce Lee started it, I donít know.

It is also my understanding that in China wushu is a generic name for martial arts, all Chinese martial arts, and is the word we should be using for it instead of kungfu. But here in the west wushu seems to have come to mean a very classical style of Chinese martial arts that is more orientated towards showmanship then actual fighting.

I donít think these definitions will ever be straighten out.

Guy

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#226277 - 01/29/06 04:07 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
kusojiji Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

Quote:



It is also my understanding that in China wushu is a generic name for martial arts, all Chinese martial arts,




Right you are.
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#226278 - 01/29/06 09:58 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Chen Zen]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

90 people



Well, there was one man that by himself stopped an whole army at a gate in China. His name was Lu bu, he was somewhere around 2 metres [at that time, chinese people weren't very tall]. His father was the "Hong Te" or emperor at that time and he was attacked by Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and the other brother I can't remember his Mandarin name.

Anyway, The emperor, Dong Zhuao, his army was obliterated except his adopted son, Lu Bu was the only one left. Lu Bu said he would let no living man pass under the Hu Lao gate. On that day, Not a single man passed through. An army was stopped by one man, Lu bu. At that time, the army numbered somewhere around 30,000 - 50,000.

I find this one to be really hard to believe but if this is not true, then why didn't the country of Shu win that day and Liu Bei become emperor? Why did Shu write down something like this? I mean, if they said that on that day they got beaten by one man and had to postpone their campaign for another 15 years, due to one man, don't you think the people would lose ALL morale?

The most amazing thing is: All he had was heavy armor, halberd and his horse which was at that time quite a powerful one. And he stopped an army, if it was nowadays, why not just shoot him with a colt. m16?

-Taison out
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#226279 - 01/30/06 12:04 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Taison]
kusojiji Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Don't take anything from ancient Chinese history at face value.
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#226280 - 01/30/06 12:05 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Taison]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
yeah i find that hard to believe too, but the kung fu partioners back in those days were highly skilled and was training in the kung fu that isnt like the ones today ( like someone said here that the martial arts today have alot more crap in it then what it use to ).also maybe the people didnt find it all that great ( the emperor too might've thought it wasn't that impress ) record it because maybe it was common back then. just a thought

and whats with throwing a chi ball through a cender block wall. i dont do any of that stuff.

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#226281 - 01/30/06 11:21 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Taison]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
I'd suggest that when they say 'only one man stood before them' it is possible that they mean 'only one man and his followers'.

After all, when we say Wellington beat napoleon we don't think the two of them were scrapping man to man in the field on their own, do we?

Alexander the Great conquered many lands (with a bit of help from his armies)

I think this might put things a bit more in perspective.
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#226282 - 01/30/06 04:07 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

yeah i find that hard to believe too, but the kung fu partioners back in those days were highly skilled and was training in the kung fu that isnt like the ones today




Speak for your self, I'm studying forms that are hundreds of years old. I don't need anybody to hold my hand to train. I know how to develop power in all my techniques. The problem nowadays is people don't know how to think for themselves. As long as you are depended on others for your training, the best you could ever be is number 2. If you know how to think for yourself you can be as good as or better then anybody from any time. In all the martial arts schools I've checked out, 90 percent or more of the students are more interested in meeting the requirements of the next rank then learning how to fight, that is the modern attitude of martial arts today. A school of though you just confessed to being a member of.

Quote:

( like someone said here that the martial arts today have alot more crap in it then what it use to )




Maybe they are talking about your posts.

Guy

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#226283 - 01/30/06 09:45 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

Quote:

I don't need anybody to hold my hand to train. I know how to develop power in all my techniques. The problem nowadays is people don't know how to think for themselves. As long as you are depended on others for your training, the best you could ever be is number 2. If you know how to think for yourself you can be as good as or better then anybody from any time.




If you ever need surgery, let's hope you don't get a doctor who thinks like you!
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#226284 - 01/30/06 09:46 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
Fighting is the lowest form of martial arts. In two or three years someone can become quite proficient in fighting. Big deal. Thinking that fighting is the highest level of MA is just a trap that will not allow the person to advance to the next level in their training.


Kevin

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#226285 - 01/31/06 04:02 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

In two or three years someone can become quite proficient in fighting. Big deal.




Well, it kind of IS a big deal. And 'quite proficient' is quite relative.
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#226286 - 01/31/06 05:25 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

Fighting is the lowest form of martial arts. In two or three years someone can become quite proficient in fighting. Big deal. Thinking that fighting is the highest level of MA is just a trap that will not allow the person to advance to the next level in their training.




If you would read my other post you would see that I have already passed the fighting stage, I am now into performance. I am competing against Chinese main land national champions, not in person, in my training. But when ever I show a performance form, people say, yeah, but can you fight, and challenge me. That is when I whip ass.

Guy

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#226287 - 01/31/06 05:29 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: kusojiji]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

In two or three years someone can become quite proficient in fighting.




You have to multiply that by 10 to get an idea of how many years I have under my martial arts belt.

Guy

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#226288 - 01/31/06 05:38 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: kusojiji]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

If you ever need surgery, let's hope you don't get a doctor who thinks like you!




Actually I tried to get a job as a doctor in the local hospital as a brain surgeon, I admitted on my application I didnít have any experience but I was willing to start out as a foot doctor. You know, start out on the ground level and work my way up.

They didnít appreciated my sense of humor.

Guy

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#226289 - 01/31/06 06:26 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
I have about twenty years myself. Fought in the ring for about five of them. Saw a lot of black belts get whopped in a matter of minutes by people trained under three years.

It's all about being trained by good instructors just like any other profession. Ali had the best trainer in Angelo Dundee. He coached Tyson as well early on in Tyson's career.

A fighters life span only last at the most twenty years so if it takes you ten years to become good than you already missed the boat.

Kevin

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#226290 - 01/31/06 09:00 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

A fighters life span only last at the most twenty years so if it takes you ten years to become good than you already missed the boat.




Well that is fine with me because if you multiply 10 times 3, you will still have to add another year to equal the time I've been active in the martial arts. And Iím still going strong.

In fact right now I am in the best shape of my life. I weigh only 145 pounds yet I can lift over 400 pounds on my own vertical leg press. And not just one rep but around 15 reps. Would you like to see a video of that too? In fact I have a whole basement full of single station weight machines.

Oh you guy are too much. lol

Guy

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#226291 - 01/31/06 11:54 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
What kind of fighting did you do MMA or point?
By the way I have a basement with a wooden dummy, double end bag, 6' thai bag, and a speed bag. For weights I like the gym, all those cute girls.

Kevin

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#226292 - 02/01/06 04:48 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Quote:

What kind of fighting did you do MMA or point?
By the way I have a basement with a wooden dummy, double end bag, 6' thai bag, and a speed bag. For weights I like the gym, all those cute girls.




In my basement I have a Yukon angle leg press rated for 800 pounds, a Body by Jake cable machine, and the next three things from Body Solid, a seated leg extension leg curl machine, ab board, and a chest pad row machine. In my living room I have a Body Solid pro squat rack (too tall to fit in basement), and a 12 section puzzle mat, each section I square meter for forms. In the dinning room I have NordicTrackís brand new CX 1055 Elliptical machine. This machine is huge, you can see it at Sears. It looks like they took a treadmill base and put an oversize elliptical machine on it. On the highest resistance it takes about 70 or 80 percent of my body weight to move it. Of all my weight machines my squat rack is the most versatile. I got the one where you can slide the safety bars up and down with just pop pins. Its great for stretching in, for laying a board across and using it for a work table, and a base to mount martial art accessories that I design.

As for fighting I know MA means martial arts but I donít know what MMA means. I only went to one tournament and I didnít like that scene. First I had to drive hundreds of miles to another state, then I had to sit half the day on a hard gym floor, after doing that I just wanted to go home so I didnít really have my heart into it when it was my turn to fight; I didnít do good. I just thought it was a big waste of my time especially when nobody really cared if I won or lost. I never went to another tournament again. That made my instructor upset but oh well. I didnít really care about rank either. It seems to me the more rank you have the more you are expected to instruct others and the less time you have to work on your own thing. So now whenever I take a short membership to check out a new gym I never test for the next belt. Even if you are a black belt they want you to start out with a white belt again, but that's fine with me because as a white belt they will never ask me to instruct. Everybody can see that I have a very high skill level and I will help people. I just donít want to teach classes. I love to train. Most of the time black belts wont fight me because it makes them look bad getting beat by a white belt. And most of the time Iím sparring people who are hostile against me and we are practically fighting for real. That doesnít bother me either because that is the way I learned. When I get rough with them they take it out on my car so I just ride in 2000 dollar cars, that way I donít care what they do Iíll just get another car.

So now when ever I feel like working out with someone else I will go to a TKD gym that is owned by someone who seems to like me, he is also a policemen. He will let me work out for a whole year for only 200 dollars. That is real cheap. But even when I work out there I work out by myself. I would come in an hour or two early and work on my ITF forms even though that is not the forms they teach, the class will all come in work out and leave and I am still in my own little space working on my forms after they are gone. Sometime I am the last one in the gym and have to turn out the lights and lock to door when I leave. This is a good TKD gym and teach good skills. Still just my presence there rases the standard for everybody else. I canít wait to wow him with my Chinese forms.

When ever I want to amuse myself with pretty girls I will buy a one day membership at the WYCA. Sometimes I am watching the women gymnastics working out with other people also watching and they would say. Wow, look at how limber they are going down in the splits that way. And I would say, I use to be that limber when I was young too but now I can only get my crotch this close to the floor and hold my fingers about a quarter of an inch apart. They would say oh no way. And I would say yeah I can. So then I have to get on the mat and flop down in the splits and they are all standing there with their mouth open and all the young women gymnasts are clapping their hands for me. And I have even more fun with the full grown aerobic women. I would find a mat somewhere where they can see me and go through my whole stretch out routine. It kind of gives my self esteem a big boost seeing all these cream of the crop women falling all over themselves trying to get my attention. But I know they just want me for my body so I donít take them serious.

Guy

PS, isn't it fun being cool? It's even more fun to talk the talk I learned from Muhammad Ali and walk the walk I learned from China and Korea.

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#226293 - 02/01/06 08:54 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
"MMA" stands for "mixed martial arts". These are tournaments where punching, kicking, grappling, submission holds are all allowed. Very fun to do.

Kevin

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#226294 - 02/01/06 09:56 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
If you have aqcuired the skills that you have ranted about, why not pass it on. In China, they tought me;
A great warrior never keeps to himself whatever makes him great. He becomes even greater when he shares his greatness to the weaker.

I don't have any personal training equipment. All I have is two dumbells, one rope, one push-up stand and a ten kilometer road that I run every morning. I think that's enough. It's not the fighting that makes you stronger, it's the passion of it. You seem to possess a deep passion for MA, that will make you strong.

What you lack however, is that you see MA as a competition. To beat others. Although not in the form of combat, you still seek to win over others in the form of form competition. Competition is good, but currently, you're practicing more to win, than to understand. I don't believe that Chinese gung-fu can be understood in the span of one man's life, nor any martial art. Personally, I would like to move on with my Muay Boran, but I have lost the interest of doing so. I feel there's more to the MA scenery than just striking.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#226295 - 02/01/06 11:02 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

PS, isn't it fun being cool? It's even more fun to talk the talk I learned from Muhammad Ali and walk the walk I learned from China and Korea.




Just as I expected. Its just going to get thicker and thicker from here on out until the troll tires of the gag.
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#226296 - 02/02/06 07:16 PM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
RockHard Huy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 65
Ten dollars says that this Guy is Ashida Kim.
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#226297 - 02/03/06 12:10 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
Ok, now I know what MMA means.

Do you use filing techniques to set up your chin nas? Filing is used to shave time off of setting it up. An example of what I mean is, hold your left hand palm down, press your right forearm against the back of your left forearm and push your right arm to the left letting the friction of your right arm turn your left palm face up and presto the left hand is in a position you can grab the hand to apply the technique. But when you do this to another you first make contact with a block, then use a filing motion with the blocking arm to turn the hand in the direction you want for the technique you want to apply. Then when you grab the hand you donít have to twist it because it is already there. Isnít that neat!!

Oh, I see I acquired another troll. One a day it seems. lol

Guy

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#226298 - 02/05/06 12:38 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Guy]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

hold your left hand palm down, press your right forearm against the back of your left forearm and push your right arm to the left letting the friction of your right arm turn your left palm face up and presto the left hand is in a position you can grab the hand to apply the technique.




What are you going on about?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#226299 - 02/05/06 03:56 AM Re: meaning of kung fu [Re: Taison]
Yuzi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 5
I'm Chinese here... Basically "Gong Fu" means hard work/ puting effort.

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