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#226169 - 01/28/06 04:16 PM Jr. Black Belts in TKD
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I have read many post where people express thier opinions about young children receiving thier black belts at a young age. I myself was witness to a black belt test which a 7 year old boy who was extremely talented earned his jr. black belt.
I was currently enrolled in a traditional tkd school and this kid had been practicing since the age of 2 and after 5 years he had become an exceptional martial artist.

I myself question whether certain kids should be allowed to obtain BB but then I've got to thinking. That certain arts are not as lethal as other arts and although tkd is a striking art which has devastaing techniques if applied correctly, it doesnt really have a huge arsenal interms of lokcing and grappling. And with the masny aspects of tkd competition being one of them a child can choose to focas on many things such as forms or sparring.
It so happends this young man was very talented with forms. We could do all the traditional forms perfectly and was creative enough to creatate his own routines for competition. He was a state champ. And his basic techniques were perfect they only lacked the power of an adult. And I got to thinking that in 10 years this kid could be a devastating fighter. However, for now he is earning his jr. black belt and is being put through a rigorous 2 hour test to obtain it, so why not, why not let him have it? He is konwledgeable in basic self defense and in advance striking techniques, he just doesnt know any of the lethal or fatal techniques and for good reason.

So I ask you, my fellow artist to please state your opinions. I dont think there is a real right or wrong here, then again maybe there could be. so please share with us.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#226170 - 01/28/06 07:57 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: TeK9]
Sushi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 93
Loc: Germany
Quote:

I myself was witness to a black belt test which a 7 year old boy who was extremely talented earned his jr. black belt.
...and this kid had been practicing since the age of 2 and after 5 years he had become an exceptional martial artist.






that is a absolutely ridiculous

he startet at the age of 2 with Taekwondo. He is not able to do anything else than playing aruound or doing something similar to moving his feet instead of kicking.

You are not trying to fool us? arenīt you??

Here in good old Germany minimum age for starting taekwondo at any dojang is seven years , or eight years!

I think I better donīt answer this question. You just want to provoke, arenīt you?

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#226171 - 01/28/06 10:55 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: Sushi]
mean_fighter Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 160
Agreed! I do traditional TKD myself and have seen younger kids at higher belt levels then me but, still dont make it to black belt until they are at a physical and mental level of maturity. My instructor wont teach any kids younger then 10 years old!

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#226172 - 01/28/06 11:35 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: Sushi]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Honestly, my instructor told me he begun his training at age of 2. He had older an brother and sister training at the school. And he used to watch them, and my instructor gave his parents permission to participate.

This is not to provoke an argument. I saw his test it was one of the first bb test I ever saw. He was tested on basic kicks, punches, poomse and inpromptu forms, weapons forms, step sparring, written essay abbout why he wanted to be a black belt.

To me he was a little mutant ninja turtle. As far as I know he knew everything except how to hurt people real bad. Is he not a legit jr. black belt?
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#226173 - 01/29/06 11:33 AM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: TeK9]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
As you said, it sounds like a valid "Junior" black belt to me. Thats the point of having them isn't it? For kids who know the material but don't have the maturity of an adult. At our school, any student who earns a Junior Black Belt must retest again at a later date (When my instructor feels they are mature enough) to earn their black belt. I see no reason not to reward students who have trained for a significant number of years with a junior black belt, and when mature enough, their black belt. However, I don't think you can blindly assign an age at which to consider that student to be "mature" or not. I know many 13 year olds who are significanly more mature than many 18 year olds, or for that matter some 40+ year olds that I know. In many ways, the junior black belt is like a Junior Operators (Drivers) License. We as a socitety acknowlege a persons skill in an area, allow them the priviledge to drive a potentially deadly vehicle, but also acknowledge a potential lack of maturity. This is primarily because the person administering the driving test doesn't know the person behind the wheel and can only assess their techinal abilities. Where as, a MA instructor knows the student and family for many year, and is a better judge of a students maturity level. When I earn my black belt, I know I will be less technically capable in some areas than many of the adolescents when they earn theirs. I may not be able to kick as high, or be as flexible, or jump as well. Is it any more right that I should earn my belt in less time than a kid, simply because I am more mature?

Laura

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#226174 - 01/29/06 11:44 AM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: Sushi]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I trained in Judo in the early 1970's and I was 7 or 8 (can't remember, you had to be one age for cub-scouts and the other for judo). I don't recall seeing very young BB's at that time.

However, there is a serious question, if sports like gymnastics and dancing allow very young children to train in what are exceedingly demanding physical activities, then why is it so strange for kids to train in MA from a young age?

Granted, there is the question of responsibility, but this is the reason for restricted knowledge of technique (no locks or chokes in junior Judo) and junior grades.

Just a question, how many kids in places like the US learn to handle firearms at a young age (not US bashing, but in UK we can't, except in organisations like army cadets)?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#226175 - 01/29/06 12:46 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: trevek]
AshiharaStudent Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
When I was younger I did shotokan karate (about 15-20 years ago). When we were in the kids class we went through all of the junior ranks and then when I got to brown belt we went on and started the senior gradings. We never had a junior black belt, but we did all of the junior grades up to that and it was very much known to everyone that they went on to the senior grades after junior brown.
The Junior grades were pretty easy to go through and it meant that kids were progressing which pleased us. Once we got to the senior grades though, that was when it all strarted again, but for real this time.
_________________________
All martial arts are equal.... it's just that some are more equal than others!

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#226176 - 01/29/06 04:27 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: trevek]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


However, there is a serious question, if sports like gymnastics and dancing allow very young children to train in what are exceedingly demanding physical activities, then why is it so strange for kids to train in MA from a young age?




I think this largely is due to the rather subjective use of belt ranking in MAs. In gymnastics, dancing, football etc. the only way you can differentiate(yes, I do take pure maths) students, is on ability. In a MA, it is very easy to try and equate skill with belt attainment. IMO, too much is made of this link- it may be true of older students to a certain degree, but there will always be large differences in ability between a 12 year old,a 25 year old, and a 50 year old.

In my organisation, there are very few young black belts. I believe the youngest ever was just 9 years old, but I would think the average age is nearer 30. This 9 year old was a daughter of an instructor and had thus been taught from a very young age- personally, I still think she was too young, but hey.

I believe personally that all children should be regularly given gymnastics classes. The reason is very simple- gymnastics is a solid base, from which one can take up almost any sport. Better to equip children with the attributes to choose what they want to do when they are older, than to force them into a MA when they are too young to truly appreciate it.

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#226177 - 01/29/06 05:51 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: Supremor]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Many people complain because the children are learning a watered down version on the art. However, from this point of view that doesn't seem so bad, I mean the last thing I want is for my son to gouge the eyes or rip out the throat of a school yard bully. I much prefer he used punches to give him a bloody nose. I mean if he had to defend himself period. Maybe there are just certain arts that should not be taught to children, maybe seperating the grappling arts from the striking arts, but then again this leaves question as to what strikes are appropriate. And then theres judo, boxing, wrestling.

I mean the way it is now, martial arts are geared towards children, and we must find a way to motivate them. Otherwise everyone lose's. I can certainly see why so many schools turn into mcdojangs, even if the instructor is a true practitioner and loves teaching MA if he has no way of motivating his kid students he is done for. He has to find a way to atleast pay for the monthly rent. Through belt test, added tip/stripes and even contracts to protect himself, which ofcourse can be mispercieved by the public. What to do, what to do?
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#226178 - 01/31/06 10:21 PM Re: Jr. Black Belts in TKD [Re: TeK9]
KarlHTKDSTUDENT Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
I don't think it should be allowed to have Jr. black belts. If a young kid who wouldn't be able to defend himdelf in a real situation (and by this I mean kids older than him.) If he is confronted by someone with bad intentions, he might decide to stay and fight instead of running like he should, because he has a false sense of security because of his black belt. My old dojang had some black belts that were as young as 6 or 7, which is one of the reasons I decided to start going to the adult classes, and eventually switch dojangs. Just my two cents.
-Karl
_________________________
A true warrior wins the battle before it begins.

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