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#225443 - 01/26/06 02:03 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: Sushi]
traz Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 99
Loc: Canada
Quote:


and which one of all the others is Olympic??




Then the reason would have more to do with the olympics, than with safety. Once again, if other arts can do it safely, than so can TKD.

And Kyokushin disallows face punches because it uses bare knuckles. Thats the trade off they chose, and it WOULD be dangerous. If they used gloves, you can bet kyokushin would have face punches.
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#225444 - 01/26/06 05:26 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: schanne]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Safety reasons, I don't buy it. As rough as training used to be I don't think we are on the same buss here and still don't believe that's the reason why the Korean styles don't "usually" kick below the waist. Most of the low kicks in MMA style fighting are not to the knees or jointed areas, they are directed to the thigh or meated calf way below the knee. (During training and sparring) Yes your thigh gets real sore but so does your jaw if your hit with a hook kick.




My point is that in MT and kickboxing, the side kick has a far more minor role then in TKD. For a TKD practitioner (or for me anyway), the most obvious way to attack the legs, is the side kick the knee. If I was allowed to kick to the legs, then I would automatically want to kick to the knee. If I was made to use angular kicks to the legs, I feel my art would be diluted and less effective. As it is, I can use knee kicks in one-step, which balances out the whole thing for me.

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#225445 - 01/27/06 12:33 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: Supremor]
traz Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 99
Loc: Canada
That really doesn't explain why TKD would disallow roundhouse kicks to the legs. They can still ban sidekicks to the knee and allow roundkicks.
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#225446 - 01/27/06 03:31 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: traz]
Sushi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 93
Loc: Germany
Quote:

That really doesn't explain why TKD would disallow roundhouse kicks to the legs. They can still ban sidekicks to the knee and allow roundkicks.




I tried to explain, that for making it to the Olympics, Safety guards are necessary and avoiding high risk of injury as well.
For the Olympics the aim is to show sportsmanship.

Kickin someones legs is not a problem for anyone, trained or untrained.
In Taekwondo basics and self-defence you learn to kick to the legs (Yop-Chagi to the knee).
What is so special about kicking someones legs??
I find it rude and simple.
Watch a K1 fight or MT they always kick to the legs. That saves energy, is simple and kick by kick you hurt you oponent more and more.....
allowing punches to the head....
as a result kickboxing is boxing with a few kicks. Mostly they can kick a little and tney can punch a little. But they cannot really kick on high level and cannot really punch on high level.
Taekwondo is specialised in foot work.

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#225447 - 01/27/06 05:39 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: Sushi]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
Why can't you grapple and throw in free sparring? I would think leg kicks being banned shares similar reasoning.

On another note, the huge lack of linear kicks in regular MMA training kind of baffles me. They've had plenty of MT and Karate practitioners to prove thier effectiveness over the years.

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#225448 - 01/27/06 11:52 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: traz]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

the safety reason is kind of moot, seeing as other arts train leg kicks regularly and its not a huge issue.




Not just that, but kicking someone in the face is safer then kicking them in the leg? I mean, come on. If it is a rules thing to encourage higher, more dynamic kicking, that's fine. But don't BS people with the honor/safety reasoning.
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#225449 - 01/27/06 01:06 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: Sushi]
traz Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 99
Loc: Canada
Gather 2 people...one of them trained in kicking legs, the other who has never kicked a leg. I guarantee you, you'll find out which one is which if you offer your leg.

Punching people in the face seems pretty easy...why does anyone practice punching?

If you're going to use the olympics as the reasoning, thats fine, just don't chalk it up to safety. In actuality, its probably closer to the fact that leg kicks aren't flashy or need alot of athleticism.


Edited by traz (01/27/06 01:07 PM)
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#225450 - 01/28/06 01:27 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: traz]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Not to mention it wouldtake away from the athesthetics of the sport. Just like kicking would do from the sport of boxing.

However, tkd practitoners still are experts in kicking and kicking kicking low should really be easier for them since they usually practice kicking high.

As far as leg kicking goes, sure I would use it in a street defense situation, after all I wear steel toed boots.

I think it should just be practiced in step sparring, along with all the other lethal techniques.
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#225451 - 01/28/06 05:50 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: traz]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Quote:

If you're going to use the olympics as the reasoning, thats fine, just don't chalk it up to safety.




For crying out loud! The Olympics thing doesn't work in this argument because the original poster says they train Chang Hon (ITF-style) which IS NOT in the Olympics, never has been and is not yet connected to WTF (which IS in the Olympics).

CHANG HON= NOT OLYMPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ITF/Chang HOn competition sparring DOES NOT use leg kicks either. It hasn't since looooooong before TKD got into the Olympics.

Do people think this is a hidden ploy by ITF to get Olympic recognition?

"Hey Guys, look, the WTF are in the Olympics cos they don't leg kick. Maybe if we don't leg kick we can get in too!"

Errm, I doubt it.

I've read interviews with high ranking ITF masters who pointed to the safety aspect. People like Bill Wallace (yes, I know he isn't a TKD man) have publicly said they don't like leg kicks for safety reasons (and why doesn't all Kick Boxing have leg kicks?).

So, that being said, it doesn't mean it is the ONLY reason (I think the 'pride' idea of showing high kicks is relevant too).

Now... where's my decaff....
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#225452 - 01/28/06 07:41 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: trevek]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
i think safety a small part of the reason for not doing it in sparring .my instructor did say once that sweeps used to be allowed though people were getting injured so they were taken out.
the reason i know is that its the idea that your pushing yourself to kick higher as its harder to do.to hit the head is the hardest target and one of the easiest parts to move out the way. its a challenge and if you can do that or set it up to hit it yourl be able to hit other places easier.a competant TKD person should be able to front kick and side kick low easily with power which could do alot of damage.the tradition turning kick getting the hips over done low with shoes on would make it able to not have to use the ball of the foot and as your hitting off centre(the way im taught)a step to the side would create more power going through the target plus if you can break at high level with it,it should be easier done low(the breaking a smashing of the target being the idea of TAEKWONDO).then if you use a faster sports 45 kick done low with shoes on,protecting you more its going to hurt too.escpecialy against untrained people.
to be honest where i train in ITF we do lots of middle section kicks more than high......45 kicks middle,side kicks mid.front kicks middle .only the axe kick and hook kick is always done high.thats not to say not to go high,just that its like the hole in one..hard and only to be done at the right time.

of course for self defence/one step..which is later on.you can kick where you like.plus the early patterns have front kicks done low too.though because its a front kick and not flashy its overlooked though its a very usefull kick.



Edited by matxtx (01/28/06 08:04 AM)
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