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#225433 - 01/25/06 02:21 PM 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs'
charlie Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 186
Loc: woking, surrey,uk
I have a question which has been on my mind for some while, maybe some of you can give your opinion.

I am currently studying ITF Tae Kwon Do, I have attained yellow belt green tag so far -

Why are you not allowed to attack the legs in sparring?

I find this strange with all the leg work within TKD why it is not allowed and kicks should be waist height or above.

in many martial arts leg attacks are allowed - thai boxing, karate, kick boxing, savate even in the aiki jujutsu I study - surely this is good for modern self defence.

don't get me wrong I love the high kicks, always have but why no low kicks in ITF? is it the same in WTF?

Thanks, Charlie.

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#225434 - 01/25/06 03:28 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: charlie]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
ITF TKD or more properly the Chang Hun system does indeed have low kicks. They will appear in BB patterns. Other kicks can certainly be done below the belt. As for the reason no kicks below the belt, there can be many. Sparring rules are decided by the governing bodies. Some reasons for not allowing low kicks in competition is to encourage high kicks which are more difficult, differentiate the competition from other arts or some generic competitions, and a safety factor .

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#225435 - 01/25/06 03:32 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: charlie]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Ahhh, because your in TKD that's why. When I was in Tang Soo Do it was also looked down upon to leg kick. Anything below the gut was taboo. A matter of fact if we did hit someone in the thigh or shin you would stop and bow, that's the way you spar now...right? Very Korean. After I switched to the MMA school where I'm at now it was a very difficult transition not to show my respect by bowing if contact was made and also getting used to my thigh and shins being rocked. In the Korean dojang we also never clinched, grappled and used our knees like we do now. To be perfectly honest with you I don't accually know why they don't do leg kick like the other styles you mentioned. It could be the military thought to just give one powerful kick to maim the enemy. Maybe they are going for the direct approach vs. trying to break an opponent down by crippling their legs. Remember too,your in a sport, not fighting for your life. My advice....learn all the ways
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#225436 - 01/25/06 04:31 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: charlie]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Low kicks actually start earlier, with Jhoon Gun (if I'm not mistaken, a blue belt pattern).

Basically, leg kicks are very dangerous and, especially if you do it powerfully, are likely to bugger your opponents knees. That's why they aren't used in free-sparring. However, as Earl says, they do play a role. You'll also use them in set-sparring and SD drills.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#225437 - 01/25/06 05:10 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: trevek]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


Low kicks actually start earlier, with Jhoon Gun (if I'm not mistaken, a blue belt pattern).




I always thought that the front kicks in Do-san, Won-hyo and Yul-gok were meant to be low.

Anyway, my thoughts on low kicking in ITF TKD are thus: In free sparring, there is a safety factor in kicking low. I can remember when another chap side-kicked me in my knee- and it hurt like hell! Apart from that, I could have been seriously injured.

Other styles that allow leg kicks, only ever allow angular kicks to the legs, and ban kicks to the knees. I feel that the side-kick plays such a major role in TKD, that not allowing it to be used below the belt, would unbalance the art.

Step sparring, SD and patterns are all good ways of practicing low kicking in a safe environment. I especially like using low kicks in one-step. I find that most risky techniques are taken out of free-sparring, for instance gloves stop use of using different striking tools to softer points on the body, but in one-step sparring, you will be able to practice any technique in the TKD arsenal to your heart's content.

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#225438 - 01/25/06 10:55 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the leg [Re: Supremor]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
It is for safety purposes in sparring (WTF as well). But they most certainly are practiced in the patterns of both Chang Hon & Kukki(Koryo has 2 side kicks at the beginning,one to the knee the other to the midsection)as well as the self defense techniques (the perineal nerve is commomly a target).

VDJ

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#225439 - 01/25/06 11:35 PM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: charlie]
traz Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 99
Loc: Canada
the safety reason is kind of moot, seeing as other arts train leg kicks regularly and its not a huge issue.
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MMA Hapkidoist Like a midget at a urinal, I'm always on my toes.

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#225440 - 01/26/06 01:58 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: traz]
Sushi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 93
Loc: Germany
Quote:

the safety reason is kind of moot, seeing as other arts train leg kicks regularly and its not a huge issue.



and which one of all the others is Olympic??

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#225441 - 01/26/06 08:55 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: Sushi]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Quote:

and which one of all the others is Olympic??




Not Chang Hon TKD.

As for the safety reasons being moot, some other arts forbid punches to the face... even Kyokoshin Karate.

Chang Hon generally practises semi contact sparring, so there's another reason (although I've always wondered why sweeps weren't allowed).
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#225442 - 01/26/06 09:47 AM Re: 'kick with the legs.....but don't kick the legs' [Re: charlie]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Safety reasons, I don't buy it. As rough as training used to be I don't think we are on the same buss here and still don't believe that's the reason why the Korean styles don't "usually" kick below the waist. Most of the low kicks in MMA style fighting are not to the knees or jointed areas, they are directed to the thigh or meated calf way below the knee. (During training and sparring) Yes your thigh gets real sore but so does your jaw if your hit with a hook kick.

Personally I think it has more to do with their kicking abilities, to kick high, sort of a pride thing. They might feel that it is beneath them to kick low??? All this handed down post WW11......i've heard of weirder things in MA


Edited by schanne (01/26/06 09:56 AM)
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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