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#224400 - 01/21/06 07:13 PM Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Hello,

As some of you know I recently started taking hapkido. So far we've gone over all the basic falls and now we are moving on to the techniques.

We've started with the basic wrist grab and how to escape it by breaking the hold by applying pressure towards the attackers thumb and index finder grip. Then we added a strike once we broke free then we added turn lock, folllowed by a throw. So we basically added other techniques to the basic wrist lock escape.

This is going on with other basic techniques, like the armbar.

How ever so far we have just learned techniques. I asked my instructor why have't we learned how to appply these techniques in a self ddefense situation and he said it's because we are learning the art of hapkido.

I was confused because from my research on hapkido I had come to think that the art of hapkido was self defense.
I thought we were going to learn basic techniques and then learn how to apply them into basic self defense, once we've gone through basic we move on to mnore advance combinations. However, he says the at and the self defense aspectof hapkido are different, can anyone ellaborate on this? I wanted to ask him more questions but he was bing very vague with his answers and I didnt want to annoy him.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
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#224401 - 01/22/06 12:29 AM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: TeK9]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
An artist must learn to use his brush before he can paint a picture....HKD is an art...some more arty than others (have high kicks)...you generally learn motion before you can apply it..HKD is pretty dangerous...it is dangerous to train in....breaking arms is not uncommon in the dojang...just take it easy...dont be to eager..learn what the master is teaching you because when you get to a higher level you are going to be thankful that you learned these basics the way you did...HKD is a long art to learn...longer than most to master...it is a fine art...lots of motor skills and studying iof the human mechanics....dont rush..what you want will come in due course!

*bows respectfully*
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No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#224402 - 01/22/06 05:27 AM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: h2whoa]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
What exactly would you like in terms of combat application? Unless I misunderstand what you're saying it seems perfectly fine to me. Grabbing the wrist is a pretty common means of trying to restrain someone, you just learned a way to break their grip and a good followup attack. What more could you do? Pay close attention to concepts. One who fully understands the concepts behind what they are doing can apply them dynamically as needed, one who only knows techniques is limited to what they are directly taught.

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#224403 - 01/22/06 05:37 AM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: Subedei]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
I think he is talking in terms of resistance on the street and compliance in the dojang!

*bows respectfully*
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#224404 - 01/22/06 06:15 AM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: h2whoa]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
Joint manipulation technique must be done very quickly and with actual force. If you're just starting out you could seriously hurt someone trying to pull them off in a compact effective manner. Besides, you should be focusing on the mechanics right now. Practice for a year or two, then worry about whether you can make a technique work in reality. Joint manipulations are one of the hardest things to learn. Master the basics in a safe, helpful environment first or they will not work, ever.

The wrist grab break is so simple you should be able to step up the amount of resistance almost immediately. Just ask your partner to incrementally increase the amount he resists the technique and see where you can pull it off consistantly and where you can't. If your instructor tells you to stop then do it, keeping you safe is his job and you need to let him do it.

What you need to keep in mind is that 80% of the Hapkido carriculum requires a lot of practice before it's combat ready, be patient and focus on understanding everything from the ground up.

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#224405 - 01/22/06 09:19 AM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: TeK9]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
I agree with most of what has been posted above!

But taking too long to give a student skills that will hopefully result in them being able to use the techniques shown to them (as in learning how to apply them under pressure) could end up with a student that encounters a real situation and tries to apply what they have learnt in isloation in the dojang. When it fails to work, who will they blame??

It's the way world is today! But if we want to give new students a proper sense of ability then we must give then live skills as they develop.

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#224406 - 01/22/06 04:15 PM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: Paulol]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
HKD is what it is....my master explained that it is a art that takes years to master....if the students want the skills to fight asap..take up TKD, or karate or boxing these tach you how to fight and defend your self in a relatively short time compared to HKD!

But you will never regret HKD!

*bows respectfully*
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#224407 - 01/22/06 04:42 PM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defense [Re: h2whoa]
SaBumNim Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 47
[quote ....if the students want the skills to fight asap..take up TKD/quote]

Trust me, it takes years to learn how to utilize TKD techniques for effective self defense applications.


SaBum Nim

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#224408 - 01/22/06 05:14 PM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defen [Re: TeK9]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
My research on hapkido led me to believe that it was an art based on pure self defense. They waisted no time memorizing usuless poomse, they practiced techniques/concepts and then learned how to apply them with actual self defense situation.

To me only aspect that was difficult in TKD was memorizing the poomse. And I come realize that I never use techniques from them anyways.

Further with the sparring aspect of olympic TKD teaches the student how to utilize his skills much faster than the traditional TKD. They may not be well versed in al forms of hand techniques, but they have incredible leg attacks. This does not mean thay are going to throw high arial spinning kcks. Simple that they are very comfortable facing an opponent who intends to hurt them. It is true that sparring is not fighting, but it is the next best thing to learning how to fight.

I don't intend on mastering hapkido in 1 year however, considering since it is a system based on countless number of techniques upon techniques, I think I should be able to apply what I know rather quickly.

If you read my first post, we began learning the armbar technique. We know many ways to apply it...providing that our partner allows us to grab his arm in any direction or form. What I would have liked to know was how to apply this effective technique during a live situation.

Although I am a TKD practitioner and already have that knowledge, I was hoping the instrcutor would have taught it. Right now from what I know as a white belt hapkido student is how to apply the armbar however, i do not know the situation in which to use it.

Please no more Mr. Miyagi wannabe phrases, they sound cute but eventualy get annoying. Please continue with your advice though, I do appreciate it.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#224409 - 01/22/06 08:34 PM Re: Hapkido Difference between Art and Self Defen [Re: SaBumNim]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

[quote ....if the students want the skills to fight asap..take up TKD/quote]

Trust me, it takes years to learn how to utilize TKD techniques for effective self defense applications.


SaBum Nim




That depends, a punch is simpler to execute in self defense imho than a proper lock, because it's more dangerous and easier imho to have someone escape from your lock than it is for them to avoid your strike with only a small amount of training. I also feel that basic strikes are easier to learn functionally in a short period of time.
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