FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 154 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Thomas_Kungfu, traa1, JohnRay50, nogibjjgear, Jrogers001
23250 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Thomas_Kungfu 1
traa1 1
June
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
Recent Posts
Forum Stats
23250 Members
36 Forums
35704 Topics
432774 Posts

Max Online: 488 @ 01/23/20 01:55 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#224318 - 01/21/06 05:45 AM Ease of Movement
Happy Birthday Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
For this week, my instructor is gone, and knowing that I had MT background he told me to supervise the class, go over the basics, and teach stand-up sparring without grappling. [I am his first student, and also the class Sempai]

So off to the sweaty gloves, sandbag and kickpads we were. After an hour of exhausting cardio training, I told them that they were allowed a 5 minute rest and then it would be continous sparring for 1/2 an hour[two people spar, when one can't continue, another just jumps in, repeat until everyone has done].

I started first with another student that was fairly top-form. We started easily then I increased the pace. After 4 minutes, he dropped out. I was able to go one for like 3 people [I didn't punch or kick anyone, it was more like them attacking, I was evading and "tap" them when oppurtinity shows].

Now I see that after a little footwork, some become really exhausted. Some don't. Is this some type of muscle memory that makes the movement easier? I felt tired, but still continuing the footwork, punching and kicking wasn't tiring me out. I asked the student who didn't tire out what type of sport they had done before. One played soccer, another one played wrestling.

Is it me, or is it that after many years of repeated movement, that movement won't take much effort to do? I don't know, seeing the other exhausted and barely able to kick, it was like seeing to people standing with guard up and just starring at each other with the occassional slap with the glove.

So, if this is the case is there some way to promote motional ease? I think that if they are able to move without taking too much energy, it would really benefit their judo.

I'm sorry if this post sounded like a rant, but I feel that if I am able to help the other student, that it must be done. Thanks in advance for any help.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#224319 - 01/21/06 07:27 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Taison]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Now I see that after a little footwork, some become really exhausted. Some don't. Is this some type of muscle memory that makes the movement easier? I felt tired, but still continuing the footwork, punching and kicking wasn't tiring me out. I asked the student who didn't tire out what type of sport they had done before. One played soccer, another one played wrestling.




Can I suggest that soccer requires a high degree of cardiovascular fitness, since you are on the pitch for 90 mins. I believe some footballers can complete the bleep test- certainly David Beckham could a few years ago.

Quote:

Is it me, or is it that after many years of repeated movement, that movement won't take much effort to do? I don't know, seeing the other exhausted and barely able to kick, it was like seeing to people standing with guard up and just starring at each other with the occassional slap with the glove.




I think you've got it pretty much bang on. As you develop your technique, you are able to do it more efficiently, that is minimizing the energy required and maximizing the speed and/or power of the technique. This is the definition of skill. I think this plays a major role in sparring endurance, however plain old cardiovascular fitness also play a major role.

Quote:


So, if this is the case is there some way to promote motional ease? I think that if they are able to move without taking too much energy, it would really benefit their judo.




Practice, practice, practice I feel is the order of the day. THe other thing that is supposed to be very beneficial for footwork, and I myself use it when I train for basketball, are ladder drills, for example SAQ. These are not only great for co-ordination, but they make your movement easier and more efficient- therefore more endurance in sparring.

Top
#224320 - 01/22/06 02:59 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Taison]
AndrewGreen Offline
shadow-lurker

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 170
Muscles don't have memory, but they do adapt to the work they are asked to do. Anytime you ask them to do something they are not used to doing they tire out very easily, even if you are in good shape.

Fortunately they adapt quickly at first, and after 2-3 workouts you can even see gains.
_________________________

Top
#224321 - 02/08/06 06:33 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Taison]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
I studied this in one of my recent college assignments and the reason you can move about with a minimum of energy and the lesser experienced can't, is because your brain has stored the movement as one motor programme which can be fired at any time and you should perform the action. The novice however, still hasn't been able to do this. He knows the movement in parts, and more than one motor programme has to be fired.
The footwork however, is also to do with balance. If you aren't balanced at all times (Even when punching and kicking), then you will waste valuable energy in trying to recover it. If you look at the forward shuffle, for example, the novice steps forward with the front foot and works to move their body forwards. Then he takes an instant to recover his balance. The more experienced person simply moves his centre of gravity forward, lifts his front foot and falls into position perfectly balanced. Effortless.
So. How to improve it. Any time you get a minute, stand on one foot, learn what it feels like to be perfectly still and relaxed while standing on one leg. Next, when you practice, keep in mind that you want to feel balanced at all times. The way I learned it was to slow all my movements down and practice them like this until i had the greatest effect with the least effort. Also like the others said, don't neglect your practice. Everyday, for at least 45 mins and probably more if you ever want to be good and start beating people when you spar
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

Top
#224322 - 02/08/06 07:41 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Taison]
swift Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 10
I firmly believe that your body moves in occurdance with the ability of your lungs in internal muscles systems. A strong diaphram and lungs with well conditioned muscles will allow for someone to have endurance which of course the purpose of the cardio work out.
How ever something else to consider....
- Another factor I beleive is anxiety. Calm fighters don't tire as easy. Automaticlly if you are calm your muscles will relax and you won't breathe heavy unneccesarily.
- Good mechanics eliminates the waste of energy. The foundation for this being just having good foot work..

Top
#224323 - 02/10/06 09:45 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: swift]
PastTheWall Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 104
Loc: London
Quote:


- Another factor I beleive is anxiety. Calm fighters don't tire as easy. Automaticlly if you are calm your muscles will relax and you won't breathe heavy unneccesarily.
- Good mechanics eliminates the waste of energy. The foundation for this being just having good foot work..




2 very good points. I learned a good while back not to tense up, which was bleeding me of a significant amount of energy, learned drills to loosen up the muscles and overall energy levels were easier to maintain. Good mechanics is also an important step, learning how to throw effective punches and kicks without fighting against yourself is another effective way to prolong sparring sessions and energy in general. Experience and training should help you become more fluid in your movements, which in turn has positive effects on endurance, if that makes any sense!

Top
#224324 - 03/16/06 01:23 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Taison]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Could be purely a conditioning issue, but like some of the later posts here, I think you need to consider the anxiety problem. I know it took me a good bit of time to learn to relax more when sparring my teacher. I was just killing myself with the tension of "FIGHTING MY TEACHER". He would repeatedly remind me: "remember to breathe", "relax". I still suffer from it, but not nearly like I did at first.

Funny thing now is it feels just the opposit if I fight "down" in class. Sparring against someone that I am really overmatching let's me almost suck their energy out. I'm relaxed and fluid and they are tight and jerky. Then it's me telling them "remember to breathe", "relax".

Top
#224325 - 03/30/06 04:52 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: AndrewGreen]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Quote:

Muscles don't have memory, but they do adapt to the work they are asked to do.




Cant agree with that. Especially when referring to speed. Take two boxers for instance. One is an amatuer and one is a pro. The pro will be faster. Especially over repetition. Why? Because his muscles have become accustomed to the work he is doing. His movements come easier and do not falter or vary as much as the amatuers. His muscles remember. Giving him the few hundreths of a second he needs to be faster than his opponent.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#224326 - 03/31/06 08:58 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Chen Zen]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Can't this muscle memory argument be likened to memory from your brain, (or perhaps some smoother neural pathways impulses over repition) and not your actual muscles. I have a problem in believing your muscles can actually think or act in any shape of form independantly.
_________________________
Cut me Mick!

Top
#224327 - 03/31/06 11:34 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Ayub]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
"Muscle memory" is just a descriptive phrase to mean conditioned response, not meant to be taken literally. The longer you practice something the more natural it becomes.

I doubt that anyone really means to say that the muscles themselves "think".

Top
#224328 - 03/31/06 06:03 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Joss]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
No one means that your muscles actually think but its interesting that Ayub would mention that.

There are certain muscular diseases that can cause a person to lose control of an arm or hand; and that particular body part would function and do random tasks as if it had a mind of its own.

With that said then one would have to agree that the muscles, while not thinking, do retain a bit of memory after having done a task many times.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#224329 - 04/06/06 10:35 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Chen Zen]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Right. And my car has a memory too.

I drive to work the same way except, every other Friday, I have to go to another office, on my way to work, to pick up payroll. Sometimes, though, on paydays, my car forgets and turns toward work anyway. Then I get there and have to turn around and go back. That would be car memory?

Top
#224330 - 04/08/06 01:29 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Joss]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#224331 - 04/26/06 09:57 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Chen Zen]
RoninKurosawa Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Well since not much could really be proven on this subject on a official note i'd have to stay neutral. But just for arguement sake i'd say that is it totally unreasonable to say or entertain the idea that on a genetic lvl or perhaps muscle cells might can retain some sort of memory at a primitive lvl. Believe it or not scienctist understanding of the human body is still premature. People and scienctist in general seem to be alittle egotistical about their understanding of life in general terms and life on a cellular stage.

Top
#224332 - 04/26/06 09:58 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Joss]
RoninKurosawa Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
The difference between a human and a car is that a human is alive and a car is not.


Edited by RoninKurosawa (04/27/06 03:45 AM)

Top
#224333 - 04/27/06 06:15 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: RoninKurosawa]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Good call

Top
#224334 - 05/03/06 11:51 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: RoninKurosawa]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
"The difference between a human and a car is that a human is alive and a car is not."

Ahh... then my little story was too oblique. Sorry.

The important similarity between the car and the body is that the human brain directs both. And both can seem to be a thoughtless extensions of the being in charge. Yet neither remembers where it has been without the brain.

Nor do muscles have actual memory... even though both muscles and cars can "act" as if they do.

Top
#224335 - 06/14/06 01:53 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Joss]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
The term "neuro-muscular system" is most accurate when referring to the refinement of tools like that. JKDWarrior is correct, the brain in its complete form with all the nerves attached stores synaptic information. Fast repetitive movements are stored as a synaptic response. The job of the muscles, however, is to react to nervous impulses and to be able to keep up. This is where the importance of anaerobic conditioning comes in. One major method Lee used was isometrics. Try holding up a ten pound bar with no weights in an extended curl position for five minutes and see what happens. Any time you learn a new movement it creates pain in the muscular system. This is because the move is a deviation from the programmed gross motor skill.

On the other hand, if the students had trouble keeping up and were heaving on the floor, that means their level of cardiovascular conditioning was low compared to yours. I've seen real Muay Thai workouts and have real respect for them. I bet they learned a thing or two from that session.
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

Top
#224336 - 06/16/06 11:02 PM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: SmithNWessonDo]
Happy Birthday Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Ya, they learnt quite a bit there.

Having already passed 8 months, I can say, the ones who left were unable to progress. The ones who stayed are in top form and quite athletics. That's a lot of progression in 8 month, considering most came from non-athletical backgrounds. Still, I can beat them though, but if it's Judo, they'll win most of the time. Seems, everyone has developed a system called "How-to-beat Taison". Jeesh, why me?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#224337 - 06/17/06 11:38 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Sorry to hijack the thread but, what are the differences between american boxing, muay thai, and JKD footwork methods?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#224338 - 06/18/06 06:16 AM Re: Ease of Movement [Re: Stormdragon]
Happy Birthday Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

differences between american boxing, muay thai, and JKD footwork methods?



Can't really say about JKD but if you wanna know Queensbury boxing and MT, I know quite a bit.

In boxing, your lead leg is at the front with about 70% of your weight on it with your lead arm elbow close to your ribs and your hands protecting the face area. The body is slightly arched forward to preserve a lower center of gravity and less area to hit while mainting a good base for attacking with rapid speed and recoil. Ideal for in-fighting.

MT has a taller stance with the 70% of your weight on the rear leg, and your lead leg is constantly moving. (See the difference?) The body is arched back a bit to create more space for swinging the weapons. The hands are held high with elbows more spaced away from the body, opening the abdomen area but protecting the face area totally, and serves a good position for blocking/parrying kicks or throwing "bolo" punches that acts like opening for kicks or grabbing for the clinch.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, JKogas, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga