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#222935 - 01/16/06 04:59 AM Judo discoveries! !
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
New Judo topics of today is! *Drums rolling*

How is a proper throw done?

I was reading in the online reading room on this forum and I noticed something that was very true. The osoto-gari, when in practice during randori, is quite different from when you first learn the move. Same goes with Tai-otoshi.

Tai-otoshi, however, has evolved during the last 30 years or so. I remember from reading somewhere that the earliest Tai-otoshi was called Hiki-otoshi or something like that and it was performed with the extended knee pointing down to the ground with a bend. This, however, was later dropped and the Tai-otoshi evolution began.

Many of the Judo throws has gone through the same evolution as the Tai-otoshi but now, are there still any move that hasn't been changed? I can only recall one that is rarely used, the Yama-arashi[Mountain storm] but that's a classic.

Have you ever been taught anything and then found out that in practice its different from what you were taught. I find that although the Ippon seoi-nage is effective when wearing the gi, it's becomes quite a hard technique to pull off when not wearing a gi, and the way you hold your opponent becomes different.

Any other people who wants to share their personal discoveries of judo? Any technique, newaza or nage-waza. The discovery doesn't need to big anything huge, just share what you have discovered. It's those small things that makes you stronger.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#222936 - 01/16/06 09:57 AM Re: Judo discoveries! ! [Re: Taison]
AikidoForReal Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 3
I've found the exact same thing in Judo as well as in Aikido and Wrestling. The techniques which actually work against resistance and without a gi are quite different from what is taught and practiced in class.
For example, the shoulder throw with a gi needs to be done as a drop onto both knees for practical purposes. It should feel like a downward sword cutting that you see practiced in Aikido, but done tightly and from the chest. It's more of a bowing motion done so that the shoulder gets put directly onto the mat. That's exactly how wrestlers do it and it REALLY works.
That's the way it was taught years ago. It makes sense that it's a downward technique and that's exactly how wrestlers apply it in competition. There are clips showing it used against world champion wrestlers competing in tournaments. Seo Nage is not a shoulder or hip throw. It's a back carrying dropping technique that's extremely hard to stop once you get the person setup for it.
The classical version of Osoto gari usually taught doesn't work well with a gi on because of the lack of chest to chest contact. The stiff arming you see all the time makes the classical version very difficult to execute. But, the driving version seen in competition won't work without a gi. The classical version works perfectly and powerfully without a gi.

Osoto gari is hardly ever seen in a wrestling competition though. Wrestlers try to keep their head in your neck or shoulder which makes it very hard to get off to their side to attack the back of their leg. There are ways to overcome this though..

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#222937 - 01/17/06 09:10 AM Re: Judo discoveries! ! [Re: AikidoForReal]
azjudoaikijitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Mesa Az
Yes the moves change when you move from gi to no gi, then angles change, and you find some moves that work with the gi are useless wihout. I learn more traditional pre WW2 Judo which has some of the more traiditional throws and locks, and is different from modern sport judo

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#222938 - 01/17/06 09:38 PM Re: Judo discoveries! ! [Re: azjudoaikijitsu]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I do Kodokan Goshin Jutsu. You know, the one before Judo became Judo.

Our emphasis is on one stun strike before a throw that's followed by a complete break lock.

Our randori's MMA. You can strike, tackle, wrestle, anything. It's the individual growth that master wants. Not just a bunch of clones that does the same thing.

Me, as of late have strayed far from normal Judo. Many say, when I do Judo in randori, it's like putting a Sambo wrestler in there against a Judo-ka. I takedown like amateur wrestlers and go into leg locks. Can't really understand those armlocks. Another guy is more along the BJJ line, as soon as he starts he kicks you in the leg and takedown and will do every technique he knows until he gets the armbar on you. I guess, randori is what really makes us, not the technique classes.

I feel, that it's easier to control your opponent without a gi. Holding him around the neck, under the armpit gives me more area to pull on. Maybe it's just me?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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