"Actually that's incorrect about the first westerner to be awarded an 8th dan in TKD. Years before two other Americans Charles Sereff and Edward Sell had received that honor."

I actually had this out with his fan-page and they sulkily told me I must have an "issue with Chuck Norris" and that it was true about him being the first 8th Dan.

I pointed out that a certain Black Belt website had pages about Chuck Serref.

They pointed out that the site belonged to Bob Wall, Chuck's best friend, and spo I should take it up with him (ya boo to you!). I did and Mr Wall not only agreed with me but explained that CN had been misinformed by the association which awarded him the belt.

I wrote back to the fan-page but nither it or CN's page on Mr Wall's site has ever been amended.

A shame someone as amazing as Chuck Norris needs to rely on duff information when the truth is amazing enough.

AND if I'm not mistaken, the 8th Dan TKD was an HONORARY rank awarded to CN by General Choi for his contributions to the Korean arts (TSD).

VDJ

Which makes it all the more bizarre that he was told it was the first awarded to a westerner, as Gen. Choi awarded Chuck Serref his 8th and 9th Dan. (unless they meant it was the first Honarary 8th dan)

Lots of honorary martial arts ranks are given to famous people. I believe Wesley snipes was given an honorary 6th degree in tkd.

Agreed, Brian. However, IF Chuck's 8th Dan was awarded by Gen. Choi I can't understand why ITF would tell him he was the 1st western 8th Dan when about the same time Chuck Serref was picking up his ITF 9th dan.

What is more, I am gobsmacked that while me, a mere nocody, could pick up an edition of TKD-Times and know CS (who I'd never heard of) was an 8th Dan, how was CN (involved a teensy bit more in US MA scene than me) not know of him or GM Sells... particularly when it is on a website he is a member of?

Bizarre!

these things are like the honorary degrees which universities give. essentially they show rcognition of the work of an individual in a particular field which reflects the values of the awarding body.

In many cases this is probably well deserved. For instance, CN promoted Korean arts and has done a lot of sterling work with social programmes like "Kick Drugs Out of America" etc. So if Gen Choi felt he deserved an honorary belt then fair enough.

It is a major problem when someone gets something purely for fame or profit. I recall one little girl who was too nervous to do her grading (when I did mine) and for some reason was awarded an honorary belt (maybe she'd done something else, I don't know).

Boy, did my belt feel a whole lot lighter and cheaper.