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#222270 - 01/13/06 04:41 AM Shadow kicking and the pain of it..
nospoon_TKD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Netherlands
Hello MA's

I'm practising TKD for about 1 year now (a little more)
When I'm practising on a heave bag or just spar I don't feel hip pain.
But when I'm doing a side kick to the head or upper torso, most of the time I feel pain in my hips when I only hit air.

Can anyone explain this to my or knows a way to exercise without having this pain?

Please don't say, "don't shadow kick", this is the last option I wan't to consider.

Thanks a ton in advance.
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#222271 - 01/13/06 05:52 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: nospoon_TKD]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I've been shadow kicking at home for like 2 months.

I'm all MT, but recently I've been exploring into Shotokan/TKD/Kyokushin kicking techniques. The pain is there as well, but I don't mind. I kinda like it. . It goes over the next morning.

Now the question is, what's happening and why is it happening? I feel it's hurting inside the thighs.

-Taison out
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#222272 - 01/13/06 06:26 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: Taison]
nospoon_TKD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:

I've been shadow kicking at home for like 2 months.
The pain is there as well, but I don't mind. I kinda like it. . It goes over the next morning.

Now the question is, what's happening and why is it happening? I feel it's hurting inside the thighs.

-Taison out




hehe.. it's not the muscule pain I do like! It's a pain wich isn't normal muscule pain, but it feels more like a hip problem.

I visited a doctor some time ago and they made xray's. There wasn't anything to see at those pictures

Maybe I need to stretch even more.. I don't know.
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#222273 - 01/13/06 07:46 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: nospoon_TKD]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Are your feet in the right position?

I had a training partner who complained about a pain when he kicked and by turning his foot a little to the side it went away.

Just a suggestion.
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#222274 - 01/13/06 10:10 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: nospoon_TKD]
zapper Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 42
if you are going to kick high with a side kick and arent super flexible, your gonna have to twist your hips a bit rather than keeping it in the same line as the side kick...thats how im taught,.
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#222275 - 01/13/06 11:46 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: zapper]
nospoon_TKD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Netherlands
I have the idea itīs because I donīt hit something.

Maybe to much force on the joints wich won't be adapted by a punch bag?
_________________________
"I have good looking kids. Thank goodness my wife cheats on me."

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#222276 - 01/13/06 12:14 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: trevek]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Are your feet in the right position?

I had a training partner who complained about a pain when he kicked and by turning his foot a little to the side it went away.

Just a suggestion.




I think that's the most likely problem. Other than that, try not to lock your leg out and make sure you have correct body alignment. Your body should be in a straight line behind the kick, don't kick at an angle. Otherwise, demonstrate the technique in front of your instructor, and see if he can give you pointers on what's going wrong.

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#222277 - 01/13/06 12:56 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: Supremor]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Try not to put so much power in it. Everyone wants to train power constantly.Power is all well and good but it isnt always neccessary over form when training. Whats happenening to you is that you are over extending the leg muscles and tendons. Since the impact of the bag or opponent isnt there to stop the foot then the leg keeps going. remember physics class? An object in motion tends to stay in motion.... so practice a little slower with just a little less power.
_________________________
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#222278 - 01/16/06 02:25 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: Chen Zen]
nospoon_TKD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Netherlands
I will indeed demostrate my kick to my Sabum, and without much force

Thank you'll for your replies
_________________________
"I have good looking kids. Thank goodness my wife cheats on me."

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#222279 - 01/21/06 09:42 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: nospoon_TKD]
DaDoN_1 Offline
twinkle toes

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 242
well...i used 2 have that as well..but i was told it was from poor technique, i got some advice on how 2 change that, if u are kicking with ur right leg...try 2 get ur right shoulder 2 be in line with ur leg on the ground...that's the best ican explain it...but if u do it correctly..it works wonders on speed and power without the pain
hope that helps u man

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#222280 - 01/21/06 12:46 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: nospoon_TKD]
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:


But when I'm doing a side kick to the head or upper torso, most of the time I feel pain in my hips when I only hit air.

Can anyone explain this to my or knows a way to exercise without having this pain?

Please don't say, "don't shadow kick", this is the last option I wan't to consider.

Thanks a ton in advance.




One of the issues with shadow sparring is the transmission of energy. If you throw a roundhouse kick into a heavy bag, the bag absorbs that force.

If you throw a kick into thin air, your leg has to absorb the force it generated to stop it. This translates into stress on your muscles, joints, ligaments, tendons, and bone.

Is it really an issue, though?

For some people, no. After a hard class of TKD (in which we do a large amount of shadow sparring) I will be sore the next day, but nothing major, and certainly nothing acutely at the time.

For many others, though, it ends their martial arts career, if you will, eventually. I think genetically, some people can handle the stress better--this may be a bio-mechanics factor, or nuances in technique. Over the course of many years, this "wear n tear" may have a compounding effect.

For this reason and others, I am moving away from traditional martial arts that emphasis shadow sparring, and into martial arts that emphasis bag and pad work.

But I'm totally digressing. Chances are, your hip flexors are a bit strained at the moment; throwing high kicks and stopping them is putting too much stress on them.
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#222281 - 02/10/06 10:26 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: MikeMartial]
Joe7987 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
Are you making sure you stop the side kick.. or are you just throwing it out there and letting it stop itself? With a heavy bag, the bag stops it.. In air.. you are responsible for stopping it. If not, you will end up hurting yourself. So make sure you stop the kick. Don't overextend it and let it pull you. That may or may not be the case in your predicament, but it's worth a try.

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#222282 - 02/10/06 10:37 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: Joe7987]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I didn't konw you could hyperextend your leg while practicing side kicks with nothing but air. I was under the impression that if you stretch properly could execute completely without pulling back.

I think your his hip problem is more of a sprain or tear than it is the way he practiced the technique, perhaps he needs to stretch more. When I execute my side kicks I follow through completely that help build the thigh muscles. Usually this puts pressure on the hammstring but if you stretch properly there should be no worries.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#222283 - 02/11/06 04:23 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: TeK9]
dicen Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 57
When shadow sparring you are not supposed to go full power, theres nothing to transfer the engery your kick is generating. If you constanlty kick full power in the air your body is going to feel it, its like the ball tied to a rubber band connected to a paddle. If you hit the ball hard enough the rubber band will snap. Also the pain in your hips could just be you'er not loosening them up enough. I have that problems sometimes I usually do hip rotations before, during, and after I practice to make sure they stay loose.

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#222284 - 02/11/06 01:06 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: DaDoN_1]
vivek Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 2
Can anyone can tell me how to practise shadow boxing and shadow kicking.Please tell me i searched almost every where but i got something about shadow boxing but not shadow boxing.
"PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO PRACTISE SHADOW BOXINF AND SHADOW KICKING".Thnx.

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#222285 - 02/11/06 05:44 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: vivek]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Once a guy in my class accidently killed his shadow with a sidekick... broke it's ribs when it wasn't looking. My master (lethal haddock fame) said that this only happened to people who didn't quite understand what shadow boxing was...

Seriously though, unless you're trying to kill your shadow (we've all been there) then you can't 'practice' shadow boxing... it's a method of practice itself. Shadow boxing/kicking is about practicing your techniques, and moving a bit. You can make up drills to help focus things, but you can't 'learn' to shadow box/kick.
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#222286 - 02/11/06 09:02 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: vivek]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

Can anyone can tell me how to practise shadow boxing and shadow kicking.Please tell me i searched almost every where but i got something about shadow boxing but not shadow boxing.
"PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO PRACTISE SHADOW BOXINF AND SHADOW KICKING".Thnx.




all shadow boxing/kciking is is just practising combinations and moves on your own. you don't hit a bag just air - thats why they say your boxing your shadow. its there so you can practise combinations and build stamina.

you can also practise in front of a mirror so you see that you aren't telegraphing your movements, i.e. doing something that gives away what attack your about to do - such as hunching your shoulders before you punch etc.
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Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#222287 - 02/12/06 09:29 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: TimBlack]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Tim please...Dont lie to the boy, how is he ever going to learn. Shadow Boxing is an ancient technique practiced by special japanese ninjas, however, the koreans were so envious of their japanese oppressors that they created an elite group of korean TKD ninjas who mastered the art of shadow kicking sparring. These special TKD ninjas went around japan, china, okinawa and france kicking people in the A$$.

_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#222288 - 02/12/06 10:28 AM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: TeK9]
vivek Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 2
Can i practise seeing mirror.
I thought that when you practice kicking types seeing your image in mirror"Then it is shadow kicking".
And when i use various punching styles seeing my image in mirror"Then it is shadow boxing".

ARE THEY RIGHT.

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#222289 - 02/12/06 04:19 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: vivek]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Yes, shadow sparring can be practiced with or without a mirror.

-TeK
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#222290 - 02/12/06 07:05 PM Re: Shadow kicking and the pain of it.. [Re: TeK9]
Joe7987 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
sorry, hyperextend was the wrong word.

What I mean is that... if you don't stop the kick at the end, you could end up feeling like you're pulling your leg out of your hip. I know I did this a few times when I first learned the side kick.. and quickly realized that it didnt feel good and probably wasnt right.

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