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#221246 - 01/10/06 05:17 PM Iron Palm Training
Savate Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 48
Loc: New Jersey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Palm How many Kung Fu students practice Iron Palm? What is your opinion of hand conditioning, internal or external?

With respect!

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#221247 - 01/10/06 06:07 PM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: Savate]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
I have been taught a form of iron bone/palm training, which includes practice very similar to what the article describes. I only use the bean bag for palm, back of hand, and claws though. A striking board is used for palm heel and knife hand. The forearms and shins are also conditioned by striking a heavy bag. Linaments are always used afterwards. I feel it is a beneficial practice for toughening and strengthening striking surfaces. It always has to be in moderation, though. I don't think anyone wants a hand they can't use for anything but striking. I was taught to do both hands, arms, and legs equally, and never more than once a week at first.

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#221248 - 01/10/06 07:00 PM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: WuXing]
Savate Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 48
Loc: New Jersey
Thank you for your feedback! I had an Isshin Ryu instructor who trained external training which made his hand look like it had no knuckles. He would have us hold 50 lbs plates and have three guys hold it up. When he punched it he knocked us all backwards. It was impressive, but he could not even write with that hand. The only thing that his right hand was good for was a piston like punch. Regular Makiwara training, I don't think, produces a hand like that?

I have been practicing the way the article states because that is the way my Sifu teaches Iron Palm. I have noticed that my hands feel stronger and my resistance to pain in the area of my knuckles is building up tolerance. I haven't progressed past the bean bag because you are suppose to smash all the mung beans before progress to the flat stones.

From my prior boxing background, I am surprised that my hands are not anymore conditioned than they are from all the years of hitting the 150 lbs bag. I know that I used handwraps and bag gloves, but I would think that the shock of hitting the bag would have conditioned my hands. I have the snapping power but not the conditioned hands?

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#221249 - 01/11/06 01:55 AM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: Savate]
VigilanteSilver Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 33
Loc: Location, Location!
Sounds like you're going about it the right way. Another form of training my Sifu told me about is something she learned at one point in China. Apparently while she was there, when they had her and some other instructors train, they had these big metal drums full of water, and you were supposed to do palm thrusts as hard as you could into the water. This is supposed to toughen your hands without injuring them. I've also heard of punching hot sand, but that doesn't sound like any fun at all. I think the Iron Palm routine is probably best. As for the boxing, I'm guessing that the bag gloves absorbed just enough energy to prevent intense conditioning, but I'm not a boxer, so I'm just talking from a theoretical standpoint there.
_________________________
Thank you sir, may I have another?!

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#221250 - 01/11/06 03:10 AM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: Savate]
ShenLungStudent Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 5
Loc: California
I practice a style of internal iron palm training that is very different from the wikipedia article. Iron palm, in general, is extremely effective and something I think every devout practitioner should undergo. When I first received the invitation to learn Iron Palm from my instructor it came with a picture of one of the students he trained with breaking 10 bricks at once with the back of his hand (I can e-mail a copy of this picture to anyone who's interested). Shr Fu warned very strongly (for the exact reasons listed by some of the other posts in this forum) against external iron palm training as it permanently damages and disfigures the hand. I'm in my second season now (it takes 3 to fully develop the hand, however, one can continue to train the hand as long as they like) and there have been substantive internal changes to my hand. Externally my hand may appear very slightly thicker or 'fuller', but there are no other visual indications of the training. However, whenever I have someone touch the knife-edge of my hand they are almost always shocked by how much more dense it feels .
_________________________
www.hsing-i.com

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#221251 - 01/11/06 03:15 AM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: Savate]
ShenLungStudent Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 5
Loc: California
As a boxer you were probably conditioning your wrist and your index and middle finger knuckles, not the hand proper. Knuckle push-ups are also very good for this.
_________________________
www.hsing-i.com

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#221252 - 01/11/06 01:13 PM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: ShenLungStudent]
Savate Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 48
Loc: New Jersey
I am retired from boxing and Savate as I have moved from Detroit to New Jersey, and so I now take Northern Long Fist. I look for the most traditional Kung Fu school I could find in my are and have been studying Long Fist for a year. My sifu he me try Iron Palm because I am not knew to martial arts though I am new to Kung Fu. So I am a Long Fist student today.

My hands seem to always feel heavy and my fingers feel 100 percent stronger. My instructor said that was a good sign. So I am withing my first 100 days of training.

I did not have access to Kung Fu in Detroit. Detroit only has Japanese and Korean styles, as I was lucky to have found a good Savate trainer. I wanted to take Kung Fum but the closet traditional school was down in Ohio - Green Drago Studios which was to far.
_________________________
Joe B.

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#221253 - 01/14/06 08:46 AM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: Savate]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
I used to study a style that used Hung Gar style Iron palm. I never had much luck with it.
I don't prescribe to the Bending Iron poles with your throat, breaking bricks, ect.. I haven't seen anyone who can do that stuff in a real fight. Maybe some people can really do that stuff.. but I just havn't come across them.

That being said I do knuckle pushups, punch mung bean bags, and the heavy bag. I know that your hand(knuckle) can be very hard but if you don't have strong wrists.. you are going to hurt yourself. The wrist is the weakest link if you are punching someone. You don't have to have a hand of steel. What good is that if you cripple your hands? so what if you bleed a little after a fight? just make sure you can win! If your wrist and hand can dish out the pain, without any fancy Qi Kung why waste the time?

Best Qi Kung exerciser is running.

Make sure you get practice on the heavy bag without gloves and hand wraps.

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#221254 - 01/14/06 10:10 AM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: monji112000]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
In my forms, there are so many palm strikes that I started to condition my hands for them too. But I take the gentle approach recommended in the many Iron Palm training sites I found on the Internet. And that is to use a bean bag and to strike it with just the weight of my hand, but do this hundreds or thousands of times per session. I do this sitting in a chair watching TV. I use this approach for all my conditioning. They say you need to use conditioning oils too, I havenít been using them but want too.

They also said that people who have their hands conditioned for the Iron Palm techniques actually prefer palm strikes over knuckle strikes because they can deliver more power with it. But what makes the palm or other open hand strikes so attractive to me is that you are less likely to draw blood from your enemies and risk getting contaminated by the AIDS virus.

Guy

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#221255 - 01/15/06 04:23 PM Re: Iron Palm Training [Re: Guy]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I really hope you're kidding about that AIDS thing, Guy

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