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#220918 - 01/09/06 11:37 AM Sai kata, which are there?
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
The system I train in teaches the following sai kata:

Tsukenshitahaku
Hamahiga
Tawata
Chatanyara
Yaka
Hantagawa
Jigen
Kojo

I myself are just starting to learn the first: Tsukenshitahaka.
And I find it quite difficult. (Maybe I if you know this kata, you could give me some training advice?)

Thanks for your response.

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#220919 - 01/09/06 01:46 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ives]
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
in my system there is one sai kata taught by the instructors:

Kuniyoshi No Sai Kata (Basic & Advanced)
_________________________
"I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey"

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#220920 - 01/09/06 08:55 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ives]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
In the Isshinryu system there are 2 or 3 sai kata.
We have Chantan Yara, Kusanku sai and Bo/Sai Kumite.
The first is perhaps the only true kata.
The second was probably made just to show you could adapt most if not all hand katas to weapons.
I believe the 3rd was invented, along with Bo/Bo Kumite, by Master Shimabuku's American students as a demonstration.
_________________________

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#220921 - 01/10/06 09:40 AM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ironfoot]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
The kobujitsu system i practice studies the following sai kata:
Higaionna
Kyan
matsuhiga
Hamahiga
nicho sai
sancho sai
nakamura no sai
tawada no sai
tsukenshitahaku no sai
chatan yara no sai
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

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#220922 - 01/10/06 02:03 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ironfoot]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Ironfoot,

In Isshinryu history, Shimabuku Tatsuo originally taught a short sai kata, Kyan no Sai, later apparently discontinued and part of it forming the 'additional ending' on Kusanku kata. There is a movie of Shimabuku Sensei performing it in 1958 and the late Sherman Harrill (among others) used to do it too.

Kusanku Sai is interesting. Taira Shinken (Shimabuku's Kobudo instructor in the late 50's) often used to suggest to instructors that they adopt various kata to weapons, to suggest they focus on the weapon, and not the embusen of a kata.

Chantan Yara no Sai, is a version of the one taught by Tara. Tara is known to have changed his kata at different times, so whether he or Isshinryu's founder made the changes are a question.

Many consider Kusanku Sai a more advanced kata than Chantan Yara No Sai. Myself I go back and forth between the two as to which is more advanced.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#220923 - 01/15/06 11:26 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ives]
Genenahs Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Adelaide,South Australia
The sai katas that are in our ryukyu kobudo are:
-Kyan no sai
-Nippon sai(Tsuken Shitahaku)
-Kusanku sai
-Chatanyara no sai
In the RyuKonKai i believe there are:
-NiCho sai
-Ishikagwa nu sai

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#220924 - 01/16/06 04:47 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ives]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
If I might ask, what system do you train in that has a Kojo sai kata?

respectfully,

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#220925 - 01/17/06 06:33 AM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: BuDoc]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
I study Ryukyu Kobujutsu Hozon Shinko Kai.
The system was formed by Inoue, Gansho "Motokatsu", which studied under Shinken, Taira.

For more info see: Ryukyu Kobujutsu Hozon Shin Ko Kai
_________________________
Ives

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#220926 - 02/08/06 07:46 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ironfoot]
shuri Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Central IL
Quote:

In the Isshinryu system there are 2 or 3 sai kata.
We have Chantan Yara, Kusanku sai and Bo/Sai Kumite.
The first is perhaps the only true kata.
The second was probably made just to show you could adapt most if not all hand katas to weapons.
I believe the 3rd was invented, along with Bo/Bo Kumite, by Master Shimabuku's American students as a demonstration.




kumi means to struggle
te means hand

kumite therefore means to struggle with hands kumibo or kumisai would be the term you need here

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#220927 - 02/14/07 07:37 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: shuri]
tnkc Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/11/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Sydney, Oz
Quote:

Quote:

In the Isshinryu system there are 2 or 3 sai kata.
We have Chantan Yara, Kusanku sai and Bo/Sai Kumite.
The first is perhaps the only true kata.
The second was probably made just to show you could adapt most if not all hand katas to weapons.
I believe the 3rd was invented, along with Bo/Bo Kumite, by Master Shimabuku's American students as a demonstration.




kumi means to struggle
te means hand

kumite therefore means to struggle with hands kumibo or kumisai would be the term you need here




Or kumiwaza

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#220928 - 03/02/07 06:31 AM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Raul Perez]
tgall Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 13
Loc: germany
Hello Paul,

in which System is are the Kuniyoshi Katas teached?

Sincerly

Thomas

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#220929 - 03/05/07 05:49 AM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ives]
Toudiyama Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 229
Loc: Zaandam, Netherlands
Here is a list od most Sai-gata
http://kobudokata.de/KobudoKataSai.htm

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#220930 - 03/05/07 07:52 AM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Toudiyama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
That's a lot of darn kata to learn!

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#220931 - 03/05/07 12:41 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: tgall]
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Quote:

Hello Paul,

in which System is are the Kuniyoshi Katas teached?

Sincerly

Thomas




Ryukyu Kempo aka RyuTe
_________________________
"I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey"

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#220932 - 03/08/07 06:40 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Raul Perez]
tgall Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 13
Loc: germany
Hello Paul,

never heard before about Ryukyu Kempo, could you tell anything about about?
Who is the founder from which Kobudo tradition is it influenced?

Which Kobudo Kata's do they teach?

CU

Thomas

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#220933 - 03/15/07 03:27 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: tgall]
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Here are some links:

www.kushu.com
www.4selfdefense.com

Enjoy

regards,

Raul
_________________________
"I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey"

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#220934 - 03/15/07 06:15 PM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: Ives]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Ives:

<<You could give me some training advice?

Sure, do NOT drop the things... they hur your feet!
Sorry I couldn't resist....


Kusanku Sai
Chatanyara No Sai

Sai are a part of the curricilium but have not been reexamined in a long time. I like them but I would not pretend to have any bone fide expertise with them. Put them in your hands, a lot... flip them, twirl them, flip them....in time attempt to hit things with them, as you do with all basic empty handed techniques.

Once achieved play with other practitioners, the exploration will be enjoyable. In time increase the quality of the folks you work with...

Sai a wonderful weapon...

Jeff

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#220935 - 04/01/07 11:47 AM Re: Sai kata, which are there? [Re: tgall]
Empishu Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Everyones hometown, pa
Quote:

Hello Paul,

never heard before about Ryukyu Kempo, could you tell anything about about?
Who is the founder from which Kobudo tradition is it influenced?

Which Kobudo Kata's do they teach?

CU

Thomas




Heres a link for some good Kobudo Demons that are in Ryukyu Kempo:
http://www.ryukyukempo.com/weapons.html
_________________________
"Keep the fight" Amor Kaicho "we are all karateka" Taika Oyata

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