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#220663 - 01/08/06 07:10 PM "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
I'm considering taking this seminar. Have any of you heard about this or have any experience with it?

www.rapeescape.com

I'm also taking the IMPACT core program in February. It'll be interesting to see if the last two months of Krav will affect my performance in these courses.

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#220664 - 01/08/06 08:44 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Have not seen either of those. I have yet to attend a seminar or program that I did not walk away with something I could use later.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#220665 - 01/09/06 03:49 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
Wow...looks very, uh, sensationalist...

I wonder how much money they're raking in for making people/women paranoid...
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#220666 - 01/09/06 09:33 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
Hm...I didn't get that impression. I'll have to meander around the whole site when I have more time.

I just dig the idea of taking different courses. Like Ranger mentioned, there's always something to learn.

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#220667 - 01/09/06 12:14 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
I sorta think taking Krav eliminates the need to take any other anti-rape training...after all, that's part of what you are learning anyway. I doubt you would see anything new. Many of these systems use a small weapon like a "Rape Kitty"..try getting that outa your purse while under attack. If you want to take some additional training, attend some BJJ or "Dirty Fighting" seminars. That is where your money is well spent.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#220668 - 01/09/06 12:24 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
The fearmongering begins: "When a man attacks a man, he either wants his money or his life. When a man attacks a woman, he either wants her money, her life OR HER BODY. The nature of the conflict is, by definition, hugely different." (from http://www.rapeescape.com/philosophy.htm)

You should take a look at this: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/rape.html

I don't believe that there's a separate self-defense for women and self-defense for men, and this is what your rape seminar implies.

Most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows (up to 80-90 percent of all rapes), your best defense against rape is being careful about who you associate with (though you can't choose your family I'm afraid). Otherwise, the methods to avoid any kind of attack (robbery, stranger rape, etc) in the first place are the same, whether you're a man or woman.
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#220669 - 01/09/06 12:25 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: RangerG]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
I couldn't agree more!
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#220670 - 01/09/06 12:27 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Krav does deal with every attack you could think of, but a rape seminar is going to be very specific on things. It is designed for woman and will have valuable information. Since you have taken Krav, the seminar might not be as informative, but I'm sure you will get something out of it. Every little bit helps, let me know what you learn and how it goes. I have taught a few "Woman's self defense seminars" in the past and I'm curious.
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If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#220671 - 01/09/06 12:33 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Dedicated1]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
Have you even read that rapeescape site? Here's a bit of the crap that comes from it:

"Some call it paranoia, but the fear of sexual assault isnít unfounded. The most underreported crime in America, it is estimated that 12.1 million American women have been the victim of "forcible rape" and that 1 out of 8 will be assaulted in her lifetime. An age-old crime, rape often encompasses sexual or psychological torture; a womanís terror and pain becomes little more than fodder for a predatorís amusement." (http://www.rapeescape.com/fightwfear.htm)

What it DOESN'T say is that the rape will in at least 8 out of 10 cases be committed by SOMEONE THE VICTIM KNOWS AND (PROBABLY) TRUSTS. How do you fight against that?
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#220672 - 01/09/06 12:50 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
MY GF has attended both the Rape defense system that uses the "Rape Kitty" and the one day seminar that Dedicated1 teaches. She found our Krav based defense seminar much more practical.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#220673 - 01/09/06 01:10 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: RangerG]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
wtf is a "rape kitty"? ;-)
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#220674 - 01/09/06 01:14 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
No I haven't read anything on that program, but I do know about the facts around rape. As for your question about how to defend against someone you know? What's the difference? If you know the person or not shouldn't matter, the defense is always the same. Someone you know may have an advantage of surprize, or that they can get in your house, or even that they are able to get in close. None of that changes your defense, at the most it should be a phsycological effect you need to over come, the fact that someone you know is actually doing this to you. Once you over come that, you should hurt them............BADLY!
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#220675 - 01/09/06 01:31 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
That most women are assaulted by someone they know is a fact I'm personally familiar with unfortunately.

Here's my thought on why I like the idea of this kind of seminar:

1) Men get in fights, but more times than not it's a liquor-induced bar fight. I'm NOT saying guys don't have to fight for their lives at one point or another ~ it all depends on the situation naturally. But the guys I know have had to deal with bar fights, parking lot fights and (rarely) muggings.

As you know, rape is very different. I obviously don't have to go into graphic details here, but rape certainly presents specific issues. I want those exact scenarios played out in my training so I can learn them and work on them. I love Krav and will continue to train, but I don't get nor do I expect my classes to be emphasized in this way. I learn to punch, elbow and kick ~ that's very cool. But if my instructor offered a specific class or two on how girls can fight against a guy specifically (especially if she's pinned, and there's almost always a huge weight difference), I'd be thrilled.

I'm sure our instructor will touch on that at one point in class, but it's been 2 months, and I haven't seen it yet.

2) Most women I know would never so much as walk into a Krav Maga class. They think it's over-the-top, testosterone driven guy stuff, and they're totally turned off. They're even less likely to stomach a grappling lesson. But they WILL take an all-girl rape prevention course (even if it's the same stuff offered in Krav) simply because it's a less threatening environment. I know it's silly, but I understand the emotion behind it.

As for the stuff on Rape Escape's website, some of it does sound scary. But again, most women I know don't think twice about this stuff. It's the kind of thing that happens to someone else, not them. Example: When I told my mother I was taking Krav, her exact response was, "I don't know any of that stuff, and I've been fine all these years." Both she and my father think I'm ridiculous. My sisters, cousins and nieces won't come to *any* of this stuff (not even the all-girl IMPACT course). They think it's a waste of time. Go figure, eh?

Ah well. I'll let you guys know if it was worth the time and money.


Edited by Lori (01/09/06 06:21 PM)

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#220676 - 01/09/06 01:49 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
"But they WILL take an all-girl rape prevention course (even if it's the same stuff offered in Krav) simply because it's a less threatening environment. I know it's silly, but I understand the emotion behind it."

I think that only gives false security. If you want to know how to fight against a guy, you have to fight against a guy. You have to learn how to deal with their strength, their smell, their size, their will to kill... would the average woman hit another woman as hard as she's supposed to during training?

As for your experience with other women's opinion of Krav - I've told my female colleagues about KM and *everyone* wants in on the action! :-)
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#220677 - 01/09/06 01:59 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
If the word 'rape' was replaced by the word 'assault' I might have half an interest.

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#220678 - 01/09/06 02:16 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Quote:

wtf is a "rape kitty"? ;-)




It's a small weapon in the shape of a cats head. The eye holes are large enough to get your index and middle finger thru and the "chin" in your palm. The "kitty's" ears stick outward in two sharp points. It attaches to your keychain and is usualy made out of aluminum or hard plastic. It does not look like a weapon...but becomes one when you put your fingers thru the eye holes..sort like a small two finger brass knuckle with outward facing sharp points.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#220679 - 01/09/06 02:19 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
This is why I prefer our particular school over others in the area. We get to see everything from beginning to around blue belt within 8 weeks, including ground grappling.

Have patience grashopper
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#220680 - 01/09/06 02:28 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: RangerG]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
Fascinating...

I can never find my mobile in my purse, even when it's vibrating and ringing Schnappi das Kleine Krokodil at full blast. I'd never be able to dig out one of those kitties. I think I'll stick to some of the stuff I learned in KM class if anyone is ever so unfortunate to get that close to me (I'm into the avoidance thing
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#220681 - 01/09/06 02:36 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
Tuxette, all-girl meaning a *class* of all girls. The instructors include men, who are the attackers in any scenario. So you get to fight off men, usually heavily padded men. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

I wish the women of my family were as enthusiastic as your colleagues. Instead they have lulled themselves with the "it-can't-happen-to-me" mantra.

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#220682 - 01/10/06 05:20 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I actually think that these are good things. I don't think that rape should be treated just like another self defence scenario, there is very specific biology involved that can be addressed specifically. I have heard of women being completly overpowered by a man, but of keep ing from being raped, because they were able to divert his attention in the right way.

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#220683 - 01/11/06 03:52 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I'm going to agree with tuxette here. I think seminars are helpful,BUT the right seminars are more helpful. This one seems to promote paranoia just to rake in money IMO.
Seminars to me should just give someone the awareness that they need more SD training. Techniques shown must be practiced many,many times to be effective. The techniques shown in most SD seminars are forgotten within a couple of weeks anyway. Lay off the seminars and get to a good SD training school.
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#220684 - 01/11/06 04:39 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: BrianS]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
Forgotten within a couple of weeks?! More like within a couple of days!

I'm a newbie at KM, and I still have to stop and think over my counterattack (i.e. "what was I supposed to do here? Oh yeah, right") when my opponent in class does some kind of attack or other (though it's not as bad as the very beginning). The counterattacks will eventually become "instinctive" reactions, but only with practice, practice, and more practice.
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#220685 - 01/11/06 10:16 AM "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Lori:

We are all saddened, and humbled by the situation which you endured. For whatever it might be worth, we are truly sorry... and yet, glad you stayed alive.

Seminars, ANY seminar unless the information is ingrained daily, used often will not be imprinted on your body-mind sufficently well to become trained instinct. It will help planting new seeds, new ideas but in order to grow.. those ideas must be nurtured, carefully grown, fed.

We cannot drop a ~few seeds~ into hard ground and believe they will take root. Krav Magda, this seminar are wonderful things for what they represent & perform.

In order to make peace with the fears, old, new or something never even considered... long term study is better still I would offer. There we all face, explore old ghosts of different types. (In time one hopes we teach them peace).

I am not a woman, and likely incapable of understanding your experience(s) at a crucial level because of that truth. We hope the seminar is most helpful for you....

Sincerely,
Jeff

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#220686 - 01/11/06 01:42 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Ronin1966]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
Thank you, Jeff. You're very kind.

I'll skip details, so here's the short version: It was a guy I knew for a year. He totally surprised me. Fortunately though, I was as lucky as I was unprepared. Another man heard me yelling, pushed in the bedroom door and pulled the first guy off of me.

I was shaken but fine. He did me a favor in a way by showing me how little I knew about self defense.

I certainly understand we can't fully learn these techniques in a couple of hours. I won't be giving up Krav any time soon, so no worries there. I suppose I would just like some practice time devoted to addressing what was my biggest problem: a heavier guy on top of me, and me unable to flip him off.

I wonder if I can approach our instructor and ask him if he might consider bumping that up in the curriculum.

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#220687 - 01/11/06 04:43 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
Have you learned the defense where you are lying on the ground and someone is up on top of you choking you? If not, ask your instructor to teach you that.

I've also improvised defenses against bigger guys on top of me holding my arms down by my wrist. More difficult to get out of (now anyway) but not impossible.
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#220688 - 01/14/06 07:02 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Lori -
Your situation is exactly the kind of reason why I study Krav as something I want to teach others some day. I think sexual violation is the lowest of the low offenses one human being can commit to another and it is completely intolerable.

I am also sorry to hear that your school, and your perception of Krav, have presented you with too much masculinism. Again, I think you should visit POW sometime. Sifu Katalin is about 5' tall and must weigh around 100 lbs, and she is the greatest SD instructor I have ever seen. When she introduces a technique, she will often demonstrate the difference between doing it on someone of similar size versus someone much larger. Sifu Dino is great too, but his approach is more about toughening. ("I don't care if she's a girl, hit!") Also, 70% of the Krav classes are female. I've had days where I get my a$$ kicked by some very skilled women. And there are always a fair amount of beginners and everywhere in between.

There has been an increasing number of women in the BJJ classes as well. I roll with a few different girls and I think it's been beneficial for my mental conditioning. It requires a high degree of maturity to roll with the opposite sex and it allows women to get comfortable sparring men. What better training could there be for the real thing than to break down the gender barriers to begin with?

People's mentalities make them victims - not their sex, size or strength. I think you are totally right in your reasons for wanting to check out that seminar, but I also think you need to build the confidence in yourself as a force to be reckoned with. Trust me, I am a small guy and I look like I could be broken in half easily, but training has given me an inner strength that can manifest itself externally when the time comes. Whatever you do, just remember that you're not a victim and no one has the power to make you one.

Stay up, girl!

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#220689 - 01/14/06 07:26 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
Thank you!

I'm not unhappy with my school and all the testosterone flying around. It actually has really helped build my confidence in other ways. If anything, I'm more confident about taking these other, extra courses now. Prior to Krav, I would have been very nervous.

POW does sound great! I'm trying to nudge my cousin in your direction, as he's closer to POW than where I train.

I have noticed more and more girls in class as of late (especially after the New Year). To be fair, I've never approached my instructor about working more on groundwork and such. And he's a very easy going, supportive guy. I bet if I asked (like Tuxette suggested), he'd be willing to either work on this stuff in class more OR provide something privately for those interested. With more girls in class, I think we'd have enough to perhaps have a separate little seminar of our own (unless the guys WANT to join us...that's fine with me too).

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#220690 - 01/15/06 04:03 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Good!
Groundwork is very important, and I can't stress it's relevance enough. The ground is where you really get into trouble - much more than you would backed into a wall. There is no out, only THROUGH. The most useful part is to learn how to hold out long enough to make your escape, like how you turn into a choke or grab the attacker's arm in such away that allows you to continue breathing. From here you can build your escapes and counter attacks. Anyway, I hope you pursue some ground technique and bring as many girls with you, as this is where most male attackers take their female victims, and we don't need anymore of that in this world. Good luck!

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#220691 - 01/17/06 09:51 AM "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Lori:

<<He totally surprised me.

Would that it could be otherwise... self-defense, children, adults, man or woman does not often (unfortunately) give massive warning signals. Unforunately for most, once those signals are read clearly... the danger is "touch" close (ie 15' too near)! It would be nice if dangerous situations came with a huge neon light, flashing at a speed equivelent to the potential danger. Some we can "read" once we're shown what to look for... others as in your situation... less can be done in most (yet not all) respects.

<<I was shaken but fine.

The damage was serious but not as horrible as it had the potential to be. That does not diminish what happened to you in the least... one hopes anybody who has such experience can find counsel, help to reduce ones ~ghosts~
and scars of such horrible events.

<<I suppose I would just like some practice time devoted

<Respectful gentle shrug> Then raise your voice... ask the instructor in whatever forum is best for you. If there is any question whether they will address the problem, ask as publically, as clearly as you can...

<<I wonder if I can approach our instructor

<Appalled> If there is ANY question in that regard, politely consider seeking another instructor... (again respectfully)!!! Your ability to apprach the instructor, ANY instructor should be virtually ~sacrosanct~ and with no impediments what so ever. If they are unapproachable... cannot be spoken with as a fellow adult... personally, I find dire problems there...

Hopefully I misperceived what you meant in that regard,
J

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#220692 - 01/17/06 12:16 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Ronin1966]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
No, no...he's a great guy! Very approachable. I've never opened my mouth about any of this, so he has no clue. It's up to me to ask him.

As for warning signs, I was reading about this on nononsensedefense.com , and the guy who grabbed me had a few things in common with the profile. Not to say that profile is 100% right all the time (I think even they point that out), but I found the similarities interesting.

This guy acheived a decent sense of familiarity with me before this all happened. I had known him for a full year. He was, in fact, my best friend's boyfriend. So it's possible any warning signs I might have seen were easy to dismiss.

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#220693 - 01/17/06 12:37 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Ronin1966]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
If an attack starts from a distance, gun excluded, your defense should be to get away from the situation, as in run. So most attacks are going to be close, if not touching when they begin. Maybe your caught by surprise, or off gaurd. Every combative and technique in krav deals with in close attacks. So with any situation it's just a matter of applying what you've learned. If your in close use knees and elbows, eye gauges, scratch and bite, etc. If none of you are training up close, you should.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#220694 - 01/17/06 01:46 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Dedicated1]
Lori Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 66
Looking back now, I realize I could have really hurt him. I had one free hand and a clear shot to the face and throat.

Ending up on my back wasn't the best thing, but he totally surprised me. He was on me in a heartbeat, and I hate to say this, I actually laughed at first. I thought he was joking around. I said in a playful manner, "Oh X...get off me." It took me a few seconds to realize he wasn't responding to me ~ at all.

The whole thing was very bizarre. But I learned.

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#220695 - 01/17/06 03:06 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
As soon as you feel your self in a situation that you don't care for you need to respond. You need to let the punishment fit the crime. If you punched him in the throat and ripped his eyes out when he was just playing around it would have been too great of a response. So at that point, maybe grabbing a hand full of skin or hair to get your point across would do. If that doesn't work, then get more aggressive and defend with whatever is available. If you know that they're not playing around, hurt them......BADLY! Hindsight is always 20/20, Don't dwell on the fact you didn't respond with that free hand. Learn from it, every learning experience helps you grow. I am sure that if you knew then, what you know now, the outcome would have been different. The man that came in to help you, would have had to pull YOU off of your attacker to save the attacker's life.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#220696 - 01/25/06 11:24 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Lori]
Donna Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 2
Hello everyone. I am a Rape Escape instructor and a black belt. As a woman, I can say that I never felt safe in my ability to defend myself from a violent attack until I learned the Rape Escape method. I am on a county Sexaul Assault Response Team and 2 Domestic Violence Response Teams. Stats mean nothing when you are being raped. I know because I meet with rape victims in the local hospitals and I support them during the collection of evidence. Rape is rape. I teach women Rape Escape locally and I do not charge any money for the class. We teach women to use their strongest weapons against a man's weakest targets. It's a simple program that's easy to remember. Rape happens everywhere and being aware and preventive measures may help, but what do you do when those methods don't work and you have a man on top of you, who is 100 x's stonger than you, trying to rape you? If you're a man, you are not qualified to answer that question unless you've been raped. I say if it's a minimal charge for the rape escape class, take the class and judge it for yourself. Trust your intuition. It just may save your life.


Edited by Donna (01/25/06 11:59 AM)

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#220697 - 01/25/06 11:33 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Donna]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thank you for your input. I think it is a good idea that people try out various training strategies and evaluate them for their needs. Personally, I will stick to my current weapons training.

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#220698 - 01/25/06 11:54 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: harlan]
Donna Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 2
I don't care what people do to defend themselves. If it works than go for it. I don't judge any programs or martial arts styles. I respect all martial arts and I respect anyone who is trying to teach women to protect themselves.

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#220699 - 02/18/06 02:24 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Donna]
Rayachick Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Missouri, USA
I feel that someone needs to teach a class that puts the "victim" on her back and must learn to fight and be effective from that position. Learning to strike on your back and release the pin is going to be the information needed. And going through the motions of it over and over and over again getting out of that postion will feel like second nature if it does unfortunately happen. I mean we learn to punch and knee over and over agian on our feet, why not learn from the ground? I also think that the stresses should be varied and the class shouldn't be in just one day. I think it should be involved every class time, repeatedly. I know the best defense is never to get taken down but if your blindsided by a 250 lb. violent man, learning on your feet isn't much of a help on your belly or back.
_________________________
One only regrets what he missed or cannot accept.

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#220700 - 02/18/06 09:10 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Rayachick]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Krav will teach you those aspects. If your a student of Krav, be patient it will come. If you want more, ask your Instructor for some extra help with it, or a private lesson.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#220701 - 02/18/06 09:37 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Rayachick]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hi Rayachick, welcome to the forums.

If your KM instructor does not teach groundfighting, you may want to check a BJJ school or maybe a MMA school to address those situations.

Striking while on your back is a difficult situation indeed, as you do not have full shoulder range of motion, nor any effective way to put weight behind your strikes. A good grappling program will teach you how to establish dominant positions that you can effectively strike from.

Check with your instructor and see what he can do for you.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#220702 - 02/19/06 09:19 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Rayachick]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
There is ground fighting in every level of Krav. It gets more involved with each level. I suspect you have not reached that point in your training yet. I agree that you should ask your instructor if you have concerns in this area.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#220703 - 02/20/06 04:17 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Rayachick]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
We do groundwork in our classes. If you want it in yours, ask your instructor.
_________________________
Darn kids! Get off my bandwidth!

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#220704 - 02/20/06 12:40 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Rayachick]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I have no idea what your curriculum covers, but even if it's "LA Krav" there should be coverage of how to escape the mount, kick an opponent who's standing over you (fighting from the ground position) and how to get back up on your feet quickly. We do drills where we move around the floor in a sitting position with only one hand to block while a partner tries to pass the guard and land a punch to the head. This is a basic building block where many of KM's ground defenses evolve from. Also, the choke, bearhug and head/wrist/leg lock escapes are paramount to self defense, I would think especially for women. The thing you won't get from the ground fighting aspects of Krav are armbars, kimuras, triple threat positions and all the other stuff that makes BJJ BJJ. But realisically there's no need for any of that. None of those techniques are conducive to escaping from an attacker or knocking his @$$ out. Stick with it, you'll get there and remember that there are some great, knowledgable people on this forum who are always willing to help

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#220705 - 02/20/06 10:18 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Rayachick Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Missouri, USA
Yeah i'm still a newbie to Krav so i guess i was just looking to learn it all now because i was attacked twice in my life and i felt horrible. I like that fact that i defended myself in a club a few weeks ago. Some jerk ttried to "press up" on me. it freaked me out so i spun and nailed him with an elbow to the head. he was mad and cussed at me a lot but i walked away. It felt so good to do that to him. Especially since i look little and people think it's ok to overpower me. Funny thing is, i'm changing jobs so i can be closer to the Krav center that i learn at. I have to drive almost an hour to get there now, so i'm going to work about 40 minutes from my house so i can go after work. I think i found a new love besides skydiving and racing.
_________________________
One only regrets what he missed or cannot accept.

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#220706 - 02/21/06 06:47 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: Rayachick]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Glad you are enjoying your training and got to use it. But do you think an elbow smach was warrented? Maybe a warning would have suffice? Just curious about the whole situation. Cuz when I used to club, it was common to push up on people cuz it was so crowded.
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90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#220707 - 02/22/06 09:16 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: JasonM]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
If she means what I think she means with "pressing up", then I would have probably done the same thing...
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Darn kids! Get off my bandwidth!

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#220708 - 02/22/06 02:59 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
There's crowded clubs and people do bump around, but I've seen enough chester a-holes use that as an opportunity to do the 'press up" that you're talking about.
Whether it's agreed with or not, rayachick did exactly what the KM philosophy would have her do by diffusing a compromising situation quickly with a correct amount of force and no holding back. After all, she didn't break anything or put the guy in the hospitsl.
Good show.

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#220709 - 02/23/06 06:15 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: ShikataGaNai]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
I don't know about the laws where the rest of you are, but "pressing up" is a form of assault here.
_________________________
Darn kids! Get off my bandwidth!

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#220710 - 02/23/06 06:44 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I guess this is the worrier in me taking over. Granted the guy walked away, but i fear that if my training is used, and the person took a blow and dies. What if that elbow, killed the person? So, because they "pressed-up" on someone they are now dead and you are looking at murder charges. Again, I just worry about these things and also not sure what Press up means, but unless he really grinded on her, pressing up happens quit frequently in the clubs. Which is why i stay out of them, because antyhing go down and rather quickly.

my .02

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#220711 - 02/24/06 03:26 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: JasonM]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
My definition of "pressing up" is just that - a *deliberate* grind (or "grind" - there are other things that are done, not sure about the terminology du jour). While most people don't do anything about it, it can be considered an assault in some jurisdictions. If I react with an elbow jab to get him out of my crotch, and the [censored] dies, it would more likely than not be written off as a freak incident/accident than a murder.
_________________________
Darn kids! Get off my bandwidth!

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#220712 - 02/24/06 05:57 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: tuxette]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I understand that and I am playing devil's advocate here. But, he dies, how can you prove he grinded you, pressed up, or whatever? I guess the outcome could go either way. And I am sure each situation is different. I guess it all comes down to the judgement of the person being pressed up against.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#220713 - 02/24/06 06:22 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: JasonM]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
MrMoyer,
With all due respect that is far fetched scenario to say the least. How many times have you seen people elbowed in the head in nhb competitions? Lots! Who has died?

Rayachick,
Good on you,but what would you have done if he didn't just walk away? What if he elbowed you back or worse?

A lady at work has pinched me inappropriately before,should I have elbowed her?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#220714 - 02/24/06 06:38 AM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: BrianS]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Yeah, I know it is a lil far fetched, but the possiblity is still here. Or, how about the situation where a someone punches another person they fall hit their hit and lights out (dead). Again, these are things I worry about, and the possibilty is great, but still there.

Good point about what if the guy didn't walk away. Just so many things to take into consideration which is why I stay out of the clubs.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#220715 - 02/24/06 12:34 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: JasonM]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
R, good for you.

the first thing that came into my mind is this - how hard did you elbow him in the face? I don't want to be insulting, but if you elbowed him in the face with everything you have, and he wasn't pretty badly hurt, you should take that into consideration when planning the way you fight. an elbow to the face is going to be one of your most powerful tools, so take that as a yardstick for how much power you can generate with your other weapons.

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#220716 - 02/26/06 04:34 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: BrianS]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
No, you shouldn't elbow her. A pinch only warrants a palm-heel strike to the jaw

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#220717 - 05/19/06 03:36 PM Re: "Fight Like a Girl" Rape Escape [Re: ShikataGaNai]
BigIrish1975 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 5
Reading thru this was quite interesting. I must say yes Krav does teach a lot of different things you can do to get away from someone attacking you.

We also put on a Rape Prevention seminar for free here. It is for Women and Children only (sans the instructors which are a mix of Male and Females paired of). It covers things that are not in Krav. It uses the Krav Principles but goes over things that a typical rapist would try or do. If that makes sense. Some of its the same some of it is completely new.
_________________________
Ryan "BigIrish" Krav Maga Instructor - Austin, Texas "Do what it takes to go home safely"

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