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#220112 - 01/05/06 05:00 PM 'Tiger's Mouth' application
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
saw on a 'Tai Chi' series documentary recently ( see here )
and the 'Tigers Mouth' was mentioned in terms of the pushing hands of Tai Chi rather than the "rolling" sticky hands incorporated into Goju (translated as 'Tora Guchi').

This was completely new to me...what can anyone tell me about this 'distancing' technique as it is practiced in your Chinese Art?

(I study Okinawan derived styles of Karate, so if you can frame in that reference, that would be great)
thanks,
-Ed

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#220113 - 01/05/06 05:39 PM Re: 'Tiger's Mouth' application [Re: Ed_Morris]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Do you have a link, I tried to download the whole episode once but I didn't have enough memory at the time.

Tigers mouth, i think I remember. Can you go into more detail as to what it was shown as in the series?

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#220114 - 01/05/06 08:26 PM Re: 'Tiger's Mouth' application [Re: BaguaMonk]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
all the info I have on that series is within the thread link I first posted.

here is what I'm talking about:
http://www.karate.org.yu/images/tora.jpg

some of the applications I've learned for this are as a strike with multiple variations. usually in conjuction with a preceeding 'mawashi uke' which is a circular deflection. it could also effectively be used as an elbow lock.

but my question is, in Tai chi or perhaps another Chinese Art, is this technique applied differently? is there a 'soft' version of it's application?
I hadn't seen it before. the series episode showed a Tai Chi master in Taiwan I believe, teaching this technique to repel their opponent. the effect was a very interesting tactic...I'll leave it to your immagination what it could be used for. lets just say if the attacker was holding anything, they for sure would have dropped it.

has anyone worked on any 'repelling' techniques? hard or soft versions?

thanks.

ps. I can't make the series available on the net (copyright issues) sorry. but friends may borrow my copy for free.

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#220115 - 01/06/06 08:59 AM Re: 'Tiger's Mouth' application [Re: Ed_Morris]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
THAT MOVE! !

When I was practicing at my Judo, I saw the Goju-ryu BB doing this one. What I understood from it, it somehow blocks both upper and lower punches and then you spin your arm into a lock and then push away. Hard to explain, but I've seen it on various occassion. At first I thought it was some type of "Hadoken" from Street Fighters.

As for Chinese arts, If memory recalls me right, I've seen it performed in both Shuai Jiao, Wushu and Aikido. But in details, I don't know. I believe it's mostly performed in IMA's and grappling arts such as Aikido, Hapkido, and Shuai Jiao.

If memory serves me right, again, that move share very similar characteristics to Ten-shin Nage of Aikido but to the untrained eye, they seem totally different. The rotating motion of the arms, as two forces pushes to different direction, it's very similar.
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#220116 - 01/06/06 04:02 PM Re: 'Tiger's Mouth' application [Re: Ed_Morris]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
The tai chi form I know doesn't have that move in it, specifically, but the bagua form I know does. It's called "shut the door, push the moon", and it is used as a repelling move which follows an arm lock/chop. I've seen it as a shove to the face and the hip simultaneously, destroying balance. In kusanku kata in matsubayashi ryu it follows an elbow smash and is delivered a 45 degree angle to the direction of the elbow with a shuffling step, which would indicate a stepping to the outside of the guard and shoving.

Tai Chi has many "repelling" techniques though, one of which is found in "grasping the swallow's tail". This technique disrupts their balance with a "press", then deflects the arms and repells with a double handed push. Both hands are dan tien height, or maybe solar plexus height.

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#220117 - 01/09/06 06:54 AM Re: 'Tiger's Mouth' application [Re: WuXing]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
yeah this is in bagua too, only in my bagua form, it is done with short fa jing (and not extended like in that picture) and with a half-step. In many forms of this movement, it is a throw like movement.

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#220118 - 01/09/06 03:07 PM Re: 'Tiger's Mouth' application [Re: BaguaMonk]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
It is very similar to "flower fist". I think Mo-pa is what its called. You could think of it as a double palm strike.

I have not used this is a real fight.. but I have seen my sifu use it in Chi Sao. It hurts.. its hard to defend becouse I often don't catch both hands.

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