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#219056 - 01/26/06 07:32 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Neko456]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Very good point and I agree about staying mobile, but you must admit that there could be times where these techniques would be applicable, even while you are trying to escape.
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#219057 - 01/28/06 01:27 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Notice that in the first reply the guy pulls a choke and then pulls the guy on top of him. Not bad if your in a ring. However being on the ground is the last place i want to be with three or four guys around waiting to stomp on my head. He even said that the human shield absorbed MOST of the barrage which means he is still taking on damage and having to keep control of the guy on top of him. Why choke at all? If your in a situation such as this, with more than one or two guys then it becomes a very dangerous situation. If i managed to get my hands around your neck then why not try something else like crushing the adams apple or breaking the neck vertebrae? Theres a lot less push and pull to control the opponent that way.

Joint locks. We do them slowly in class. Correct. However have you ever tried to catch someones arm while in serious combat? Its hard to do in a sparring match much less in reality. Unless your sparring strictly grappling. The truth of the matter is that an opponent and his flunkies have set out to hurt you. Most likely this will be accomplished by striking repeatedly. To chase after the opponents limb to secure a lock is going to leave gaps in your defense and slow down your offense. If you prefer joint destruction in this situation then why not go for something a little easier to accomplish like say a thai kick to the kneecap? Its quicker, it leaves the use of both hands for defensive or offensive purposes and it facilitates good footwork and movement. Try to keep moving effectively when both hands are tied up trying to secure a kimura lock or rear naked choke.
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#219058 - 01/28/06 01:41 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Gavin]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi All,

I have to agree with Gavin regarding the rear choke, when I was working as a doorman I had the pleasure of escorting a lovely chap out of the venue, everything was fine until his female companions decided to attack me with their handbags, now i don't know what their handbags contained but they felt like house bricks and it didn't take long before i'd changed positions and used their mate as a shield! poor sod took a right battering!

James.
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#219059 - 01/28/06 04:28 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Chen Zen]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Notice that in the first reply the guy pulls a choke and then pulls the guy on top of him. Not bad if your in a ring. However being on the ground is the last place i want to be with three or four guys around waiting to stomp on my head.




I was referring to a standing RNC. They are just as effective once you get them sunk in.

Quote:

Joint locks. We do them slowly in class. Correct. However have you ever tried to catch someones arm while in serious combat?




It's easy to control a limb from inside the clinch. Admittedly not a good place to be, but it does happen sometimes.

Both the chokes and locks I was referring to were standing techniques from the clinch. No groundwork involved.
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#219060 - 01/28/06 05:18 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Actually I was referring to Gavins mention of the RNC and how his peers had used it to shield themselves on the ground.

And, admittedly it is easier to obtain joint control from the clinch but this isnt an optimal situation in a multiple attacker situation. In the clinch you still have to control the opponent. The control is the problem. When you try to control the actions of others you use much required energy. Energy that could be used to out manuever opponents, strike opponents, or more importantly energy to escape. Also, in the clinch balance comes into play. Especially, if that balance is disturbed by outside forces(your other opponents).
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#219061 - 01/28/06 06:53 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Chen Zen]
konooburu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 10
Loc: Eastern Kentucky.
A goood thing to do Is kick up some gravel Or throw some gravel at them. Or Powder What ever you can find to slow them down, And or Blind them "Metsubushi" Then go in for some attacks To there Throats Or any open Body parts,
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#219062 - 01/28/06 07:31 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: konooburu]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
note to self: never attack someone on tarmac.

my advice would be stomp or kick the one that is down if you can, keep him down. when it comes to mutliple attacks you have to properly hurt them; i.e. in a one on one fight you make sure someone knows that it isn't the best idea to keep fighting you and the fight stops, you don't nessacarily have to cause them a lot of pain; multiple attackers needing it spelling out to them.
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#219063 - 01/29/06 12:23 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: funstick5000]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Exactly. You have to go about it as if your life is in danger because it very well could be. You cannot have compassion for an opponent such as this. Its dangerous to think otherwise. If it were a pack of wild dogs you wouldnt be so gracious would you? Its the same thing except the human opponents are a lot more dangerous because they have a plan. And possibly unseen weapons.
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#219064 - 01/30/06 05:50 AM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Chen Zen]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Actually I was referring to Gavins mention of the RNC and how his peers had used it to shield themselves on the ground.




Chen, no offence meant, but this is actually based on real world experience. I'm not a grappler in the slightest, but if you're being overwhelmed and you've got a couple of guys raining shots down on you will do one of two things cover up or get hurt. With the best training in the world, you just can't block 3 or 4 sets of arms and legs. If the attack happens it will be like a swarm and you need to weather that storm by covering up then come out firing when they try and untangle themselves. Personally if I'm forced to cover up and I can bring one of them in to take the pounding rather than my arms I will. If I can choke them in the processs even better.

This swarming behaviour I've seen many many times, in fact twice this past saturday night alone.


Edited by Gavin (01/30/06 08:31 AM)
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#219065 - 01/30/06 05:07 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Gavin]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Ive seen this sort of thing. Ive played both parts of the field, the victim and whats feels like a lifetime ago, I was one of the "badguys" that get wrote about in topics such as these. Above any of that I train constantly against multiple attackers because of the area and occupation that I have tends to find me in gang infested areas. On the ground you're easy picking. Even in the example you gave you said that the person was able to sheild MOST of the shots thrown at him. The problem is that it only takes ONE. Not even a good one just a lucky one in the right spot. Now the same is true when you are on your feet but at least then you have much more options defensively. More mobility, and more ease to retaliate. Also escape is an option when you remain on your feet. How do you plan to escape when an opponent is laying on top of you and others are trying to cave in your skull? Please dont take offence to the tone of my post but i dont understand the logic. I cant fathom why a person would choose to be surrounded by opponents while laying on his back wrestling with another guy, rather than attack hard and fast on your feet and escape.
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