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#219016 - 01/03/06 10:21 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Ed Glasheen]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Run like I stole something... create as much space as possible. If I am forced to fight, I would rather take out the ringleader with my "everything I got punch"..use front kicks to create space...if I have one attacker bent over that I have kneed in the face a couple of times, I might use him as an obstruction between myself and another attacker.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#219017 - 01/04/06 12:07 AM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: JKogas]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Simple,

I'd pull my Sig Sauer P232 and have at it.

Is that fair?

Just curious.

Maybe I should have said something along the lines of shooting chi-balls, jumping into cat-stances or, maybe just hitting first, hard and often?

I like answer number one though...


-John




Nice weapon. I like the new Sig P229 SAS,but I thought we were unarmed. Well,I'm never unarmed though.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#219018 - 01/04/06 06:09 AM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: BrianS]
jessecrouch Offline
Blogger and Scientist
Newbie

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 14
RUN!

clearly your best bet. but im sure you were looking for something a little more in-depth and fight related.

the initiation of force isn't always physical. if you truly feel threatened in such a situation and theres no way out (cant run) then you have little choice but to attack. my favorite two options:

1. destroy the leader.
2. find the leader or at least a valuable member of your attacking group and take him/her hostage. command from there.
_________________________
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#219019 - 01/04/06 07:11 AM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: BrianS]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Unarmed or not was never mentioned so I thought I'd add my own two cents there.

First of all, it's stupid to go "hands-on", if you aren't an LEO, in ANY potentially violent situation if one can avoid doing so. The stupid quotient just spikes off the CHART when discussing multiples.

People who think they can take on multiples empty handed are MORE than a little goofy.

I suppose there are OTHER options to emptying your clip such as: 1) Running / avoidance (like a sane person would do or 2) Taking your ass beating like a man, lol


-John

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#219020 - 01/04/06 12:20 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: JKogas]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Interesting thing about dealing with multiples....opinions vary.

After a discussion with someone in which they claimed that Gracie JJ did not address dealing with multiples, I contacted Rorion Gracie directly and asked him. His answer was similar to JKogas.

Don't voluntarily confront multiple assailants unless there are no other practical options to diffuse, defend or escape. If you must, initiate and flank. Don't get caught in the middle. There is no magic footwork other than having an athletic base that you can learn and develop in any contact sport such as football or basketball (or of course, wrestling).

The question of who to hit first? All things being equal it would be nice if you got to pick. You probably wouldn't have that luxury. The closest attacker would probably be the most likely target. If he is the smallest that would be a bonus.

Ultimately, it's another exercise in mental masturbation to over think this scenario too much. No matter how many scenarios you come up with, the one that you forget is the one that you will probably face.
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#219021 - 01/04/06 02:24 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
JKogas - People who think they can take on multiples empty handed are MORE than a little goofy.


I hate to say this but thats only for people who never have done it. I can't tell you the MAs and just good street fighters that I have seen who have taken on multiple attackers and defeated them or fought them off and survived. I am one of these people did I look goofy doing it I don't know and don't care, but I looked better the 2 or 3 that tried to mug or attack me. I'm only saying this because no matter how good you are you can't make blanket statements like that, either way. And I won't believe U can't win/fto because I and others have done it. I know it doesn't sound probably but over confidence can get your a$$ whipped, that all I can account for this. Thats what I saw in their eyes until the very last couple of seconds. How good were my assailants? Don't know I did interview them. Where they good enough to seriously hurt me? Any full grown man is.

Now I know you might say since the Gracies or their Co-heart Jkogas (you're in good company), believe you can't fight two or three people on the streets, its not possible. They are experince fighters, but I can't argue with my success. Now all or either of the above mentioned people could probably whip my a$$, but I still survived and made it work against 2 or more people.

I agreed you can't fight Multiples the way they fight grappling is bad, bad news, fighting multiple. I've read Ricksons BB article fighting two people one kicked him in the face while he choked the other out. I know they know who to kick and punch but you fight the way you train.

I have a lot of respect for their Grappling/fighting skills but I won't change how I approach 2-3-4 on one just because grappling is the craze now.

I agree the odds are against you no matter what, I've seen some people brutally beaten, hospitalized and paralyzed because of this.
I mean already unconcisous and these animals still kicking the body like its a bag of grain. You pull up in the scout car and they scatter like roaches all you can do is stop the bleeding and call the Ambulance. Knowing this you know anythhing goes, its for real.

I agree with what the others posters stated don't be a stationery target keep moving (toward the door if inside trapped) once I ran into a bath room by mistake. The advantage is they had to come through the door one at a time or the like last two shoulder to shoulder arms pinned by the door framed, you can't stop a heavy bath room door from bashing your face with your arms pinned by the door frame, no matter how mad they seemed to look. So only the 1st guy made it inside the bath room, the door clipped his heel he stumbled slighting thats all I needed. When the two guys fell backwards, I ran out of the club to my car and didn't stop until I was home. Was I lucky probably so but it all adds up to being alert, vigilant and a opportunist.

I've seen an a street fighter no formal training throw cigereett ashes into two attacking men faces, and beat the he%% out them with the ash tray.

I saw this 30 yr old TKD man blow away these 3 teens in a bath room at the fair grounds. They pushed him while he was peeing with his back turned. He did it with solid kicks knocking them off their feet. I thought, I was gonna have to help this little guy but it happens so fast that it was over in seconds. Then he ran out the door, these guys got up and chased him to the bath room DOOR. Stopped there they really didn't want to catch him. They were joking with each other calling each other names like sorry mfs, saying who wanted to be the 1st one to catch him!!

Its defintely possible, though not probably.

Let me say that I've been beaten down in 3-4-5 and tapped out by one person. They made no mistakes, their skilled. It seems improbably to win against such odds but this is in a dojo. Fighting fair, no risk accept for humiliation and fun. This is not the case in the street against multiples, i keep remembering it could be me, unconcisous being kicked like a grain sack. U have no choice but to fight and escape, no such thing as can't.

And a Sig or weapon is fair or even money in my books, 2-3 on one attack they deserves whatever they get. You order sh%^ , you eat sh%^!! The Chinese Restruant Manager informs Richard Pryor. rest his soul.


Edited by Neko456 (01/04/06 04:47 PM)

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#219022 - 01/04/06 02:57 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: JKogas]
Briant Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1
Quote:

Simple,

I'd pull my Sig Sauer P232 and have at it.

Is that fair?

Just curious.

Maybe I should have said something along the lines of shooting chi-balls, jumping into cat-stances or, maybe just hitting first, hard and often?

I like answer number one though...


-John




+1 to what John said. Though I like my Glock.

And yes, it is fair, superior numbers create disparity of force which allow weapons to be used in self defense.

P.S. Don't forget to move while you are shooting.

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#219023 - 01/04/06 03:19 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Ed Glasheen]
thepanda Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 46
If there was no other alternative to violence i would use anything close to hand and try and smash their heads into a wall, because that would probably put them out for a while.

Although i've never had to

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#219024 - 01/04/06 03:20 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: Briant]
GojuRyuboy13 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 535
Loc: U.S. of A.
gosh you guys, I would smash em, all. In my dojo we practice fighting more than one, so I would give em all a good beatin.

It would go like this. The first guy would throw his fist, I would stop it with my mighty palm, and than grab his hand and throw him on the ground pulling his arm out of the socket. Another would try to tackle me and my mighty Sanchine stance would stop him dead in his tracks and than I'd elbow the back of his head. That's all I got though, I have no idea what to do for three people, we don't practice that.........yet.
_________________________
"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns." Aw, The GodFather

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#219025 - 01/04/06 04:53 PM Re: Multiple Attackers; How would you handle it? [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Kjogas wrote - People who think they can take on multiples empty handed are MORE than a little goofy.


After re-reading this statement I almost agree. Against multiples always use a weapon to even the odds IF U CAN.
Of course I've defeated two on ones bare fisted, no time or chance to pick anything up. But If I could have, I would have. Some might look at my above post and see a contradiction, (I used the door as a weapon) not to mention the heel of my shoe.

This is not as uncommon as you might think. I trully would not teach it if I didn't know it work sometimes, I give the odds.

I guess I'm in that Goofy bunch after all, but it was forced on me. If I had a choice it would have been with something in my hands.

Goofy is what Goofy does, It worked for Forest.


Flect1 - Ultimately, it's another exercise in mental masturbation to over think this scenario too much. No matter how many scenarios you come up with, the one that you forget is the one that you will probably face.

Though dojo work can be like as you mentioned MM, wouldn't you say the more you work with this situation the more you know the dos and don'ts. Its like once you know how to counter a RNC, all though its been rumored once applied, you are defenseless, the more you work against it. Less this is true. I agree you can't cover all the bases/scenarios, but knowing where they are helps in running them. I'd say rather then little or no preparation. Rotationing strikes on the targets, keeping them off balance is a good practice, and keep moving/fighting toward the OUT/door!!!


Edited by Neko456 (01/04/06 05:18 PM)

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