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#218598 - 01/21/06 05:56 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Demonologist437]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Breaking swords is a favorite pasttime of jo men. It is less trivial than you might think to block a sword. The swordsman only really needs a glancing blow to really mess up the jo man. A glancing blow from a jo however may be shrugged off in its entirety. There is a difference in margin of error. The jo man really needs to be better, or perhaps more sober, than the swordsman.
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#218599 - 01/22/06 08:35 AM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Charles Mahan]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
There is no definite size for the jo or bo. Each ryu has its own jo or bo size. Common size for a bo is around 6shaku (approx 6feet).

Sizes for Jo are anywhere from 3 to 5shaku (approx 3 to 5 feet). In my ryu we use a 4shaku jo and it is the same thickness as the bo.

I think cutting through a bo or jo would be a very difficult thing to do on a live opponent, the angle needs to be almost perfect to make a complete cut. However it can be done and you can see people cut through similar thicknesses of wood when someone makes a bad tameshigiri cut and hits the matt dowel.

In a real bo vs sword fight it may be possible to simply damage a part of the wooden weapon enough that it's unuseable, i.e. make a deep cut through it so it can no longer absorb blows.

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#218600 - 01/23/06 10:04 AM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Charles Mahan]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Quote:

Breaking swords is a favorite pasttime of jo men. It is less trivial than you might think to block a sword. The swordsman only really needs a glancing blow to really mess up the jo man. A glancing blow from a jo however may be shrugged off in its entirety. There is a difference in margin of error. The jo man really needs to be better, or perhaps more sober, than the swordsman.




Hey Charles,

Does the Muso Jikeiden Eishin Ryu contain any training against a weapon like the stick or staff?

Also, I have just started to study Kosho Ryu Kempo. They have a variation of Staff technique that seems to be rare yet based on one of the methods for "Walking" with the stick.

The stick (usualy jo techniques) is sometimes used (one of the methods in which they use it) by holding the stick at the top and having the butt of the weapon placed against the ground (like a walking stick). The exponent then moves around the stick to avoid the other's weapon much like when we were kids playing tag around a light post. The main concern in using the staff like this is the controlling hand. Great attention must be used to have the hand "alive" so if it is targeted, the exponenet can move it to a position of safety away from the target point (especially if the opponent is using a sword). Very insteresting methodolgy to dealing with that surprise attack while you were hiking (lol). The trsikes from this posture seem to be more of the off-ballancing type rather than anything lethal.

Great discussion and I hope that underdog is getting a lot out of it.
Regards,
Walt
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#218601 - 01/23/06 10:28 AM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: kroh]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

Does the Muso Jikeiden Eishin Ryu contain any training against a weapon like the stick or staff?




Nope. We train to cut people not weapons

Sorry. Just feelign a tad obnoxious. Lack of sleep and all.

Presumably at one point in time it was not uncommon to train for these scenarios. The waza that are now considered the core curriculum of MJER all assume the opponent is a swordsmen. There are proably still a few kaewaza floating round that address the differences.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#218602 - 01/23/06 12:25 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Charles Mahan]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

Quote:

Does the Muso Jikeiden Eishin Ryu contain any training against a weapon like the stick or staff?




Nope. We train to cut people not weapons

Sorry. Just feelign a tad obnoxious. Lack of sleep and all.

Presumably at one point in time it was not uncommon to train for these scenarios. The waza that are now considered the core curriculum of MJER all assume the opponent is a swordsmen. There are proably still a few kaewaza floating round that address the differences.




The Bugei Ryuha Daijiten lists both bojutsu and hojojutsu in Hasegawa Eishin Ryu. Presumably these might have addressed the matter. I've no idea if they're still done anywhere though. It's tough enough just getting Tachi Uchi no Kurai and Tsumeai no Kurai instruction. Maybe in Japan, if you studied long and hard and got up to 7th dan? Dunno

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#218603 - 01/26/06 12:00 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Charles Mahan]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
How would a jo- man or bo- man break a sword? The sword/boken I am working with is the katana. I've got a variety of disarms worked out, but I don't know what the vulnerabilities of the sword are.

I think the swordsman works hard to avoid perpendicular contact with the bo. I think he would bruise the bo pretty badly but might get stuck loosing a fighting time frame and damaging his blade. True? False?

I think the swordsman does not want the bo to hit down on the broadside of the blade if the end of the blade is on the ground. Is this true? False?
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#218604 - 01/26/06 12:18 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: underdog]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
The sword breaks I was taught with a jo, involved very strong strikes to the side of the blade. There were various bits of manuevering necessary to set it up, but long story short the blade is struck VERY hard on the side of the blade, where it is not especially strong.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#218605 - 01/26/06 07:01 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Charles Mahan]
Nik_Miller Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 28
And if it doesnt break the sword, it tends to make the swordsmans hands unhappy.

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#218606 - 01/26/06 08:43 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Nik_Miller]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
That's very true. I remember doing it once and disarming my partner rather thouroughly. I suspect his tenouchi wasn't very good, but still. That sword was airborne.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#218607 - 01/26/06 09:23 PM Re: 2 sword questioins please [Re: Charles Mahan]
Nik_Miller Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 28
ive had the sword knocked out of the left hand while the right hand still gripped, but both hands were about numb(useing a waster)

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