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#218526 - 12/31/05 08:54 AM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
That depends on the situation. The police officer gave you a great piece of advice for the scenario you found yourself in. Contact the bouncer, or even ask a member of the bar staff to contact the bouncer on your behalf, stating that your attacker was threatening you. Let a professional remove him for you.

As indicated on the website and my own limited study of criminology, there are certain behaviours that can put you at risk of being targeted. Think about it. He had a whole bar full of people. Why pick you? This is a rhetorical question; you have to answer that for yourself. You need to make sure you aren't doing anything that puts you at risk. Be aware of yourself at all times.

As stated, it depends on the situation as to how to secure you personal space. If in an open space, you can keep your personal space free by moving to keep the distance between you and your attacker. In a bar, this becomes trickier. You can get someone to leave your personal space by your response.

I know there is a lot of info on the website, but check this part out (if you haven't already), with special reference to the "Interview" stage. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html#crime_interview

On a final note, it is important to realize that people here aren't having a go at you mate! We have all made mistakes in our lives. The reason some of us may sound a little harsh is because we don't want you ending up in a bad way again. You were man enough to realize the error of your ways; and if your behaviour in the incident cannot be commended, at least that can.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#218527 - 12/31/05 04:24 PM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Vinnie,

First of all, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I bet there are many here who would not admit to getting KO'd by an "untrained" adversary.

Second, you point out several things that so many MAs don't think about in a confrontation. Fighting in a dojo is sooo different from fighting in the street. To some extent MAs, myself included, get a sense of false confidence because we do so well in class, and we "know" we can take out an untrained opponent.

I hope others use this post to think about their training, to realize that altercations are not fair, and that your opponent, trained or not, is dangerous. MA's are not invincible.

Now, if you see this guy again, don't fight unless you have too. But if you do end up in a fight, take him out!

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#218528 - 01/02/06 02:53 PM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
First, if you encounter this guy again. Let him bring the problem to you, try to avoid it, you might even speak to him friendly. However, if he starts a confrontation with you again I would open up with both barrels and try to finish him before he can even catch his breath. You may want to train for this. I've seen in some self defense books a technique that is attributed to the SAS. It's consist of about 5 real aggressive and potent techniques done in a rapid sucession to finish an attacker quick. You may want to work on that.

Also, one techniqe I came up with to ensure that I didn't escalate an altercation but was able to protect my "personal space" is this: When someone is invading your personal space and being verbally hostile but not to the point of an overt attack put your hand and arm up and step back w/o touching them. If they then push your arm, shove you, etc. then open up on them. You have taken a step back and put up your barrier they then chose to assault you. With your situation you better be ready to spank this guy if he gets into your personal space again. You're going to have to shut him down if he wants you to be his punching bag. Even if he beats you again, if you make him pay dearly for it then he will not want to fight you again. MAKE HIM PAY!, if he tries it again.

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#218529 - 01/03/06 12:15 PM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Quote:

FIGHT FAIR, when your opponent goes down, leave them be. Donít carry on kicking them when here down. Watch out, some people do.




You're kidding, right???

Fight fair???? Please...if you are dumb enough to get into a fight in the first place, you best understand that the LAST thing your opponent is thinking about is fighitng fair.

As far as I am concerned, if I get into a fight all bets are off. My opponent goes down, I am going to make damned sure he doesnt get back up.

Now understand, I am the least agressive person I know. I hate confrontations, I hate fighitng. I honestly think that it is one of the lowest forms of human behavior around. Two morons start throwing hands over what?? Ego? You looked at my girl friend? I had a few beers and am feeling tough??

The only way I will fight is if I am pushed to it without any other option for settling whatever the dispute may be. Therefore, I feel no guilt or anguish over dropping the guy I am fighting and leaving him for dead.

I know I know. Bad advice; legal ramifications blah blah blah. All I know is that is I am pushed to the point where I am going to fight (and remember my stance on fighting in the first place- you have to push damned hard to get me to throw hands) then I am going to fight. He goes down, I make sure he stays down.

And just for the record, fair fighting is not on my list of things to do. The last thing I hit him with are my hands and feet. Chair. Brick. Garbage can. Whatever.

You want fair, go play a sport. You want to mix it up on the street, you get what you deserve.

G


Edited by Galen (01/03/06 12:17 PM)
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

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#218530 - 01/04/06 06:22 AM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: Zombie Zero]
shihan_chris Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 64


Quote:


the fight starts when the first punch is thrown: make sure its you.




Horrible advice.

Quote:

The one to land the first decent technique has the clear advantage.



And will be the one spending the night in prison.




Actually, its good advice to be the one to throw the first punch. If somebody has the intention of hitting you, then it make sense to hit that person first if you can't get away from the situation.






And will be the one spending the night in prison.




If you ask me, this is horrible advice. In most cases, the guy won't even no who you are, let alone be able to prove that you hit him. I got in several brawls in my younger days, but the police never got involved, because I had enough sense to LEAVE!!!!!!!! I wasn't the one that started it, but I knew that the police likely wouldn't see it that way.

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#218531 - 01/04/06 03:14 PM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: shihan_chris]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573


If you ask me, this is horrible advice. In most cases, the guy won't even no who you are, let alone be able to prove that you hit him. I got in several brawls in my younger days, but the police never got involved, because I had enough sense to LEAVE!!!!!!!! I wasn't the one that started it, but I knew that the police likely wouldn't see it that way.





This can vary from country to country, and indeed, state to state, but in most places if you get involved in a fight, the law sees you as behaving in an antisocial way and can hold you responsible. This is regardless of who started it.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#218532 - 01/07/06 04:13 AM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
Shaolinboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 256
Loc: England
Well I think it is always good to avoid conflict if you can but if you have no option then use your training the best you can to defeat your opponent and try to escape unharmed if possible. Of course you may not always have the luxury of using a third party to intervene.

I remember this encounter i had in a club and i was just standing by this table minding my own business while my friends were doing their own thing. Suddenly this guy gestured with his head for me to move ( i assumed he had been sitting at the table and i was in the way) but i really felt like a wimp for not standing up to him but then again that may have led to a fight which would have been pointless for such a minor reason.

I like to think that if my life did depend on it I could defend myself adequately with my 7 years of training but I am not a very assertive person and let people walk all over me including a so called friend of mine who i am afraid of because he is very aggressive and i try to avoid arguing with him because i don't want to get into a fight with him. But I know that when i spar i get very competitive and I don't get as scared but thats a lot different from fighting someoen who is angry at you.

Forgive my ramblings!

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#218533 - 01/13/06 10:49 AM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: Galen]
VinnieM Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 11
Loc: manchester, uk
Galen, I agree with what you said in one sense; that fighting is one of the lowest forms of human behaviour. But isnít it even lower to fight with no ethics what so ever, to carry on striking your 'opponent' with weapons & feet when theyíre down with no way of defending themselves?

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#218534 - 01/13/06 01:07 PM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
In the scenario you mentioned you had every oppurtunity to avoid this conflict, he approached you twice saying you were looking at him (stupid I know but thats how it is at bars). Why not move to another part of the club/bar? Near the bouncers or management, usually near the door. No one likes to be pushed around but if the alternative is fighting (especially if you don't know how), I'd move.

As for stepping outside to fight someone, bad, bad (as now know) decision. You let him decided how, when and where, sounds almost like a trap. Never step outside unless you got a plan, always make sure he in front of you!!! If you let him decided where. You decided when, he pushed you, you deck him. Like Galen mentioned ain't nothing fair about street fighting.

But If you stomp someone after a KO U risk going to jail, thats aggravated assault with the attempt to committ maim if they survive and manslaughter if they die. You became a victim bc U let him direct your action and U were completely defenseless laying there Ko'd. Consequence you might need to consider the next time you Think about stepping outside.

I know some people if you lead outside you never get to turn around, you are left laying there in their urine and they are back laughing and drinking at the bar. Don't let them lead.

I'd never stomp anyone unless they kept getting up and I fear the results changing or theres more then 1 attacker. I'm trying to stablize the situation its not really to inflict more pain on a helpless, it stop me from being the helpless.

If you don't know how to skydive why jump out of the plane just because someone ask you to. The same with streetfighting learniing and the experince ain't free, it costs you.

Lesson learned.


Edited by Neko456 (01/13/06 01:17 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#218535 - 01/24/06 06:03 AM Re: first fight (got messed up)...advice? [Re: VinnieM]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
All fights are good experiences as long as you can walk from it. It seemed you got your tail handed to you but now you seem smarter about the next one that will happen. If you never break that fear and get into a real fight, you will never know how to react to it because they all happen in different ways...uncontrolled. Controlled fighting, sparring is a good help for learning explosiveness and technique but they are controlled and you miss the surprise elements of "WTF do I do now" lol! I am sorry you got hurt so bad but I bet his hand is hurting and swollen pretty badly too because of wrong technique it might even be broken. So he is clearly not a winner just didn't get hurt as bad. Also, he was probably scared for his life because he kepted pounding you after the KO lol. At least your not dead !
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Be "Water" my friend!

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