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#218353 - 12/29/05 05:14 PM It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Judo is based on getting the correct grip on your opponent in order to throw him, and always practiced with a gi. A gi is made of strong material that doesn't rip or stretch and allows you to have a solid grip for throwing.

Take a close look at your Judo gi. It's got an open collar, no buttons, very easy to get a good grip on. It's even got a nice thick lapel made for grabbing. There is excess material on the gi where it hangs from your wrist. Again, perfect for grabbing.

But what happens when your opponent isn't wearing a gi? Is everything you trained so hard in practice still going to work, as is with no modifications.

Let's take a moment to really analyze the situation.

OK, your opponent isn't wearing a gi. What is he wearing? Let's look at the possiblities...

(1) No shirt
(2) A collared shirt
(3) A T-shirt
(4) A tank top
(5) A Jacket

No shirt: Well, it's obvious what the problem is here. You can still throw with ease, provided you know how to grip the body. But beware, if you have not practiced throwing someone with no shirt, you will encounter some difficulty. It's best to train this in advance, as opposed to waiting until you're attacked.

A collared shirt: If it were unbuttoned, you could probably grab it in the same fashion as a Judo gi. But often collared shirts are worn buttoned up, and now what do you have to grab? Also, the sleeves typically have a tighter fit around the wrist. Not impossible to grab, but there is a difference.

Tank tops and t-shirts: Made of cotton, a very flimsy material that will stretch, if not flat out tear. Same problem as the collared shirt, no lapel. Also no sleeves, at all. Grab a friend and try a few throws with them in one. I think you'll find a huge difference when you go to make your throw. The material will likely stretch and foil your throw.

A Jacket: You have the same problem as with shirts - no lapel, unless the jacket is unzipped or unbuttoned. Once open, you can probably use the same throws you do with a gi, given that jackets are fairly sturdy. If it's not open though, what kind of grip can you get? You're back to square one.

Those are the reasons why I say you should practice Judo with no gi. Perhaps only minor adjustments need to made in order to be successful at throwing someone in a tank top. But in the heat of the moment is the wrong time to find that out.

Try it for yourself. Perhaps someone could report back with their findings? In the meantime, share your thoughts and/or experiences.

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#218354 - 12/29/05 05:25 PM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: BigRod]
Street_Poet Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 140
Loc: Los Angeles
this is something i have learned from my experience with BJJ, it may or may not apply to judo.

when ppl train in gi, their no gi is automatically improved as well, but when ppl train in just no gi, u throw a gi on em and they drown. thats just my 2 cents tho...what do i know
_________________________
For all sad words of the tongue and pen, the saddest are these, "I might have been..."

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#218355 - 12/29/05 05:38 PM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: Street_Poet]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:

when ppl train in gi, their no gi is automatically improved as well




I've trained extensively in both, and this not true.

But despite my opinions, that has nothing to do with Judo and the point of my post.

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#218356 - 12/29/05 09:58 PM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: Street_Poet]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

when ppl train in gi, their no gi is automatically improved as well



Wrong.

I've been training Judo without a gi. We usually change between t-shirt or tanktops at different classes.
Now all of a sudden, the master told us to wear a judo-gi. We did the same techniques we did for no-gi, and it worked excellent. But some student saw the advantages of the gi and immediately went for the ippon seoi-nage frenzy, and then suddenly master said, "take off the shirt" so we removed the shirt, and went on with no-gi. The dudes who were doing the ippon seoi-nage frenzy got brutalized. They were so stuck on doing it, but now without shirt all covered in sweat, it's so damn hard to do it.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#218357 - 12/30/05 09:38 PM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: Taison]
Legend of the Hungry Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 221
well its really all situational. with no gi, even if you can't ippon seoi nage, you could always do a koshi garuma, just gotta get ur arm around their head, u still have o-goshi. judo is filled with plenty of techniques so no matter the situationt here is always somethign u can do.
_________________________
Hakkyokuseiken Senpuken-terry bogard

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#218358 - 12/31/05 03:18 AM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: Legend of the Hungry Wolf]
ParadoxPlague Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 46
Loc: New Durham, NH, usa
If you train Judo in order to better your chances of surviving in life, train without a gi. If you're living in upper middle class white suburbia and you practice for tournament or to impress your friends then do whatever you want.


Edited by ParadoxPlague (12/31/05 03:20 AM)
_________________________
Peace can be tangible

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#218359 - 12/31/05 09:57 AM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: ParadoxPlague]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
I live in cold snowy Poland where people wear big coats. Sorry, I'm not stripping off in -25 to have a scrap!
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#218360 - 12/31/05 04:12 PM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: trevek]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:

I live in cold snowy Poland where people wear big coats.




Still, coats are not gis. Do you think you can get a good grip to make a throw? Have you tried throwing someone wearing one of those big coats?

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#218361 - 01/02/06 06:43 AM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: BigRod]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Hee hee, gotta admit that I haven't recently (at least not in serious conflict) but some of them are pretty strong coats.

Personally, if anyone comes looking for me in -25 and their half naked, then I aint gonna stick around to find out whether you're right or not!!!

(don't worry, I DO get your point)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#218362 - 01/17/06 09:12 AM Re: It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi [Re: trevek]
azjudoaikijitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Mesa Az
It depends on your goal.If it's sport judo, than why bother, but for real street application then absolutely. Cross training in wrestling, or some aiki based MA also helps since you find more grabs throws that don't rely on a gi

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