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#216935 - 12/24/05 09:00 AM Why geniuses are never REALLY happy!
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
This question was asked in another thread. Many answers were given but the root wasn't touched.

The basic thing to be understood is first the ego. The ego survives on attention. Attention is its food. And the ego creates separation - if there is "me", then there is "you". The two polarities of oneness.

Once ego is understood it's not hard to see why most geniuses arn't happy. Quite simply, man has an investment in misery. The average ego-clinger soaks in misery because misery strengthens his ego. When your suffering, you become the centre of attention. When your unhappy, you are the centre of attention. We learn this as children...we fall and hurt ourselves then mom comes and cuddles us. She makes us feel happy and loved. Maybe not this particular example, but something like this, either good or bad. This carries on unconsciously throughout life, unless of course you come to recognise it happening within you on an unconscious level.

Geniuses more so tend to be martyrs. They are smart and cunning enough to know they are smart. But they can only show off these qualities amongst their worshipping crowd. Naturally, martyrdom becomes there form of attention seeking from the crowd. They display their wonderful intellect in front of this crowd who are immensely impressed; they too are a crowd of egos. And just like magic, their ego satisfaction has been filled with the geniuses marvelous display.

Unless one can recognise their own attachment to their image or ego, then one can never transcend it. Many will tell you the ego is good, that it protects you. But this is false. The ego may protect you from others, but it cannot protect you from yourself. It is just a location. An identity. But the root word of identity is "entity". The word entity means entire. Identity is only a part of the entire, the whole. So naturally an egotistic man can never be whole; can never be HOLY.

So this is basically why geniuses are never happy. There are also other levels to their misery, but this is the basic root.

Just remember love is the only motive which can bring awareness. "The only criterion of truth is joy. Whatsoever makes you joy, delighted, blissful etc is truth."
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#216936 - 12/24/05 03:29 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
That's nice and all, but couldn't you have just put it in the other thread?
Or was it ego that made you want to start a whole new thread of your own?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#216937 - 12/24/05 11:26 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: JoelM]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
What ego? he/she/it doesn't even have a name; how egoless can you get?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#216938 - 12/25/05 01:23 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
It does have a name, but it's only a name.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#216939 - 12/25/05 02:01 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
How many geniuses have you known? or are you just falsely stereotyping? (not a very HOLY thing to do)

I have met a few people who could be considered a genius...although socially, you'd never know it. The few I've met tend to be shy, antisocial and stay away from the spotlight. My roomate in college was a genius (IQ slightly above 140). I remember 3 things that I learned from him:

* How to make an awesome beverage if you only have beer, orange juice and ice in your fridge.
* How an internet worm virus works in all it's geeky detail. (rare knowledge in 1989)
* He said if he ever invents anything useful, he's going to give it away for free....it's the challenge of the work, not the glory of it's completion that makes him happy. If his only ego was in finding solutions and defeating a problem with the spirit of a lion and mind of a genius - thats not a bad kind of ego to have...wouldn't you agree?

you've got it dead wrong. It's not ego that sometimes causes unhappiness for such people...it's either lack of challange or fear of success.

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#216940 - 12/25/05 08:10 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Tell us something about his room-mate
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#216941 - 12/25/05 08:42 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
Forget me forever. Just listen to the words and forget me. I do not wish to offend anyone, but its inevitable. For that, I apologise.

Humbleness is an ego. Ego can be good or bad, loud or shy. All it wants is appraisal; good appraisal or bad appraisal does not matter. It wants to be recognised, because that very recognition supports you. It supports your location. And that's all ego is, a location. There is a deep fear in the unknown, and when you meet that unknown in meditation, there is no location, there is no "I" as such. You are dead alone. So we cling to our location because it gives us purpose; support. Deep down we are afraid of our aloneness and so cling to the ego. The ego is not your creation. It begins at birth. We are named. We have an address. We then become school students. Then we obtain job titles. Then the degrees, masters, honours, phd and so forth. 10th dan black belt, master. You are not these titles. If you are living by yourself on an island, what is the need of these titles? There is nobody to communicate with. The ego is just for the purpose of communication. Identification with the ego causes unhappiness.

Even humble people are appraised by those like yourself. They state "if {I} ever invent anything useful, {I'm) going to give it away for free"...and now you think, "oh this man is great, very humble, yes he is a great man". But that too is appraisal. It is food for the ego. I'm not saying he is a bad person at all. There is a good intent. Good heart.

As for "holier-than-thou" people, that too is an ego. We appraise these other humbles for being humble. But you haven't heard the words. I did not say I was humble or holy. It was interpreted by your offended ego:

"How many geniuses have YOU known? or are YOU just falsely stereotyping? (not a very HOLY thing to do)"

I've come across many intellects or what are called geniuses. But the real geniuses, I've never met, only read about. As for me, I do not care about being known. Truth is my only motive. Understanding is the first requirement of truth.

"...it's either lack of challange or fear of success".

Through challenge, man becomes great. Solving complexities strengthens mans ego. "Yes, I have solved this very complex and challenging equation; one which only a genius could solve!" This is internal dialogue from such achievements.

A man who fears success is more cunning. He has an ego of low self esteem. He does not like the spotlight. The spotlight puts pressure on his image, and if this image buckles under pressure he will be exposed. So it is much safer for this type of man to remain in his humble ego, where there is greater protection from such pressures, and greater appraisal for his hidden image.

Ego is an illusion to the true self. It is neccessary for communication purposes but the root cause of suffering. It coincides with the mind. The mind and the ego are two sides of the same coin.

Also, misers never wish to be happy. When you are happy you become irrelevant to people. The trees, animals, flowers, birds, they are all happy and we barely notice them. We may look at them but never notice them or pay close attention. When you are happy there is no need for anyone else to help you. You are content, happy. What is the need of anyone to come along and try to cheer you up? There is none. When truly happy you are so content, there is no need. And your happiness makes others angry. It reflects their lack of peace of mind. They will pick at you. Deep down they smile at you because they do not want you looking down on them, down on their egos. But it is a forced smile, a supported smile. It is to save face. Deep down they may be very angry with you; angry with their anger. It is reflected by your happiness.

And misers dont want happiness, they want recognition. This may bring a moments satisfaction. But only a moment, it will not last because no one can be bothered to keep their attention on you for the rest of their life. Their minds are too full with thoughts to focus on you for more than a moment. Impossible! And you will go on trying to get their attention with different feats.

By the way, the other thread had too many posts on it. Better to forget the old and bring the new.

Just be, just watch and let life happen. Truth is all.
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#216942 - 12/25/05 10:22 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Sorry...nothing personal...but the whole topic is based on a generalization. I have it on firm authority, the lovely guys at FA.com ( ) that I am a genius ...and I am happy.

So there. Both threads demolished.

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#216943 - 12/25/05 11:00 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
wasn't offended in the least...we all get things wrong sometimes. Words may sometimes come across offensive...but when we read them without involving our ego, we may find some good wisdom and food for thought in self-evaluation.

you've changed your tone and widened your view a bit on evaluating geniuses. In fact, you've changed gears a bit and instead of keeping with why geniuses (and a 'genius' is just a title meaning IQ:140+) are unhappy, now it's 'people' in general:
"Identification with the ego causes unhappiness."
- like the term 'genius' for instance? who is giving them that title? you? or is it an arbitrary and relative ranking test by institutions?

"holier-than-thou people" - not necessarily geniuses.

"intellects" - another arbitrary title subjectively given by people comparing people to themselves. one may be an intellect, but no genius.

"internal dialogue" -you can evaluate people's internal dialogue? or are you comparing what you feel based on what you suppose others might? you'd need to consult your ego in order to do that.

"By the way, the other thread had too many posts on it. Better to forget the old and bring the new." so the perfect thread would be one in which only your 'voice' is heard? I think a thread is most useful when as many people who have something to say chime in...

I'm not picking on you, but just wanted to point out that for every reason you give why geniuses are not happy, there could be an equal reason why someone of the general population is not happy. - so it's as pointless to stereotype geniuses' happiness as it is to stereotype your own.

your thread "Why geniuses are never REALLY happy!"
It takes ego to consider people a genius or not.
It takes ego to consider people happy or not.
It takes ego to make a statement "!" as oppossed to a question "?"

consider the title of a thread and compare:
"Why geniuses are never REALLY happy!"
to
"Is there a connection between IQ and happiness?"

which would you say is ego-based?

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#216944 - 12/25/05 11:49 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Ed hit this one pretty well on target. The lack of happiness a genius experiences is not so much a matter of ego, it's either a lack of challenge, or having the challenge before him/her and being so caught up in it that the rest of the world does not matter.

My problem in life has been lack of a suitable challenge/opportunity. There has been nothing in my hometown for me, and I've been unable to leave, until recently. Ego had nothing to do with it. Lack of suitable challenge and mental stimulation has everything to do with it. Ego is self value. My lack of happiness in life isn't because I value myself too little or too much, it's simply that everything there is to do around me is BORING. I go to school, to sit in a class room and fly paper planes because everyone else takes twice as long to learn something. I get a job, and it's either fast food or unskilled labor, so I'm so bored at work that all I want to do is go home. There are only a handfull of people who can strike up a stimulating conversation with me here.

Ego has absolutely nothing to do with it. I find people who have an ego problem are the ones who regard themselves as "intellectuals", which I am finding to be more and more true to mean "self-aggrandizing naive idealist".

IQ relates to happiness in that IQ is basically the "speed" at which a person learns, and therefore being unable to learn as fast as I can makes me bored and therefore unhappy. IQ also relates to happiness in that the more you know, the more there is to learn and do, and with that comes the knowledge that even should I live forever, I will never learn it all or do it all.

There are so many factors that influence our level of happiness in life. I never claimed to be completely unhappy with my life, but that I was lacking in happiness. I'm somewhat in the middle. But there have been "great" men in the past who have been completely unhappy in their lives. And all they lived for was their area of "genius". Part of it was the things that happened to them, but part of it was being consumed with the next "big thing".

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#216945 - 12/25/05 12:01 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
You haven't even read the old thread, still you dismiss it as lacking something profoundly central to the issue, that's a work of one great Ego

If you had read it, you'd know that Ego in fact was brought up (by our own genius, harlan, if memory serves me) and its role recognised, albeit in somewhat fewer words...

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#216946 - 12/25/05 03:38 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: nenipp]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
All this reminds me of those characters in Terry Pratchett's "The Hogfather" which have to continually refer to themselves in the plural because when they refer to themselves as an individual they 'disappear' or cease to exist, or something.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#216947 - 12/25/05 08:46 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
Let's look at the word genius. Just a simple look can reveal it.

"Geni" "Us" - genie us please. Impress us.

"you've changed your tone and widened your view a bit on evaluating geniuses"

Tone has changed, as it always does and I didn't evaluate anyone as a genius, not even the other ego types. IQ, EQ, it roles into one.

Even a genius is part of the general population.

I never called anyone a genius in this thread - "It takes ego to consider people a genius or not." If you read it without ego as you told me not to I haven't called anyone a genius. I know I'm not.

I never told anyone if they were happy or not - "It takes ego to consider people happy or not". That's personal choice.

I never said I didnt have an ego ! "It takes ego to make a statement "!" as oppossed to a question "?".." I just dont cling to it.

IQ is mechanical, a mechanism, egoless. EQ or EI (emotional intelligence) is a mechanism. Happiness falls under EQ, so it too is egoless. All emotions are egoless until you identify yourself with one. Only when you say "I am happy" does ego enter in. Instead of "happiness is there inside me, I am watching it". The "I" is the ego. The letter stands so tall too. So many things.

I didn't name these other ego's geniuses either.
"holier-than-thou people" - not necessarily geniuses.

"intellects" - another arbitrary title subjectively given by people comparing people to themselves. one may be an intellect, but no genius.

"internal dialogue" -you can evaluate people's internal dialogue? or are you comparing what you feel based on what you suppose others might? you'd need to consult your ego in order to do that. "

Where did you get the impression I was stereotyping geniuses?
A holier-than-thou ego is just that. An intellect is just that. Just different ego's, none of which I called geniuses or even attempted to.

"Words may sometimes come across offensive...but when we read them without involving our ego, we may find some good wisdom and food for thought in self-evaluation."

Offense has been taken by so many people here. If you were not offended there would be no need to say "wasn't offended in the least..."

PLEASE, forget there is a person writing this stuff. If you forget me there will be no one to get angry at, and you may consider understanding. Everyone gets angry or annoyed at this topic because it hits close to home, it hurts many egos. It's only exposing them, and these reactions I'm hearing are proving it. Yes it is general, because geniuses too are general people, a part of the population. I'm just proposing that the ego be dropped when alone to just be, then watch bliss enter in
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#216948 - 12/25/05 09:43 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Okay.

BTY...welcome aboard.

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#216949 - 12/25/05 10:21 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
if only I could express my laughter on here oh yeh, whats BTY? Thanx.

I also wish to apologise for not reading the ENTIRE other thread. I've now read 90% of all of it, skipped a few things, but read about the ego by harlan, all of which is true. My sincere apologies to harlan . But hey, now there is extra understanding of the problem of ego it can't be too bad, no one lost anything


Edited by its_only_a_name (12/25/05 10:45 PM)
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#216950 - 12/25/05 10:58 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Crap. I'm getting sick of hearing about this big mouth 'harlan'.

BTY=by the way

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#216951 - 12/25/05 11:42 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
LOL, I thought by the way = btW never mind lol
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#216952 - 12/26/05 12:32 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
read carefully:
your whole point is based upon the made-up fact that there is a larger percentage of geniuses that are unhappy vs. non-geniuses. I'm simply reminding you that you may have not met enough to make that sweeeping statement.

In other words, you were biased from the very moment you made your thread title...both times. have you learned nothing from your own thread(s)? The next time you meet someone who you consider superior in intellegence to yourself, you can continue protecting your own ego by thinking: 'That person is a genius, but probably not happy.'

I suspect that any kind of intellegence and any kind of happiness are not oppossing characteristics of a person. Think of the concept of an unhappy moron - is that as impossible as a happy genius?

BTY...being 'content' is not everyone's happiness...nor is always getting shorthand acronyms right.

p.s.
getting enough air in your bubble?

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#216953 - 12/26/05 01:31 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I am not truly happy,therefore I must be a genius!

I am not really happy,therefore I must be a genius!

I used the word I way too many times in MY reply,therefore I must have a big ego to feed.......Okay,I am happy,so what I'm not a genius with a big ego atleast I can admit it.

Bow to your sensei!!!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#216954 - 12/26/05 02:44 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Let's look at the word genius. Just a simple look can reveal it.

"Geni" "Us" - genie us please. Impress us.




Main Entry: ge·nius
Pronunciation: 'jEn-y&s, 'jE-nE-&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ge·nius·es or ge·nii /-nE-"I/
Etymology: Latin, tutelary spirit, natural inclinations, from gignere to beget
  • 1 A plural genii : an attendant spirit of a person or place
    B plural usually genii : a person who influences another for good or bad
  • 2 : a strong leaning or inclination : PENCHANT
  • 3 A : a peculiar, distinctive, or identifying character or spirit
    B : the associations and traditions of a place
    C : a personification or embodiment especially of a quality or condition
  • 4 plural usually genii : SPIRIT, JINNI
  • 5 plural usually geniuses
    A : a single strongly marked capacity or aptitude <had a genius for getting along with boys -- Mary Ross>
    B : extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity
    C : a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high intelligence quotient



"Genie us"...Cute, but wrong.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#216955 - 12/26/05 02:54 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
Dude, no need to put words in my mouth lol It may be big enough but please resist . Half these things your saying I haven't even touched on. Since when did I say all geniuses are unhappy? The thread name comes from the other thread "Why are geniuses never truly happy?". Not my creation, just an expanse BTW There's plenty of air in my bubble haha

"The next time you meet someone who you consider superior in intellegence to yourself, you can continue protecting your own ego by thinking: 'That person is a genius, but probably not happy.'"

Good point I personally don't see the point though in creating a stronger ego. It's only a harder wall to smash in the end.

"Think of the concept of an unhappy moron - is that as impossible as a happy genius?"

Anything's possible But since when did I say it was impossible to find a happy genius?

" your whole point is based upon the made-up fact that there is a larger percentage of geniuses that are unhappy vs. non-geniuses. I'm simply reminding you that you may have not met enough to make that sweeeping statement..."

Thanx for the reminder that there are not a lot of geniuses But since when did I say "...there is a larger percentage of geniuses that are unhappy vs. non-geniuses..."?

I do have a lot of air in my bubble if no ones noticed But as I said, my only concern is truth...and that means the extinction of that which is simply false This is not saying "I'm right, your wrong", but it may be INTERPRETED by an unclear mind as "I'm right, your wrong". All it is is truth which is applicable 2 EVERYONE, yes even me.

"...being 'content' is not everyone's happiness..."

Very true, but when some one is happy, they are content

"...nor is always getting shorthand acronyms right "

You got me there dude Told ya I was no genius
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#216956 - 12/26/05 03:09 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: JoelM]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
And who wrote that meaning? All meaning is interpretation, even mine

"1 A plural genii : an attendant spirit of a person or place
B plural usually genii : a person who influences another for good or bad "

Yes, correct. Influence key word. Influence leaves impressions. Impressions on the audience or observer. A genius has the ability to influence people. Isn't that what I said? "Impress us".

Genie (3 A : a peculiar, distinctive, or identifying character or spirit ) Us (the collective individual, [plural]).

Dude, why use 1000 confusing words, when 2 will do? LOL I should talk haha :P

Nothing is wrong, nothing is right. Words are pictures. All pictures are interpreted by the individual perception, even words. The only common thing amongst my definition and the dictionaries definition is description. Similar word pictures, but neither is right, neither is wrong. The dictionary has a more accurate definition. So be careful when you say someone is wrong.

"There is no right, there is no wrong, there's only popular opinion..." - Twelve Monkeys


Edited by its_only_a_name (12/26/05 03:11 AM)

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#216957 - 12/26/05 09:44 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
right. you're not a genius....but at least you're content.

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#216958 - 12/26/05 11:14 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

"There is no right, there is no wrong, there's only popular opinion..." - Twelve Monkeys




"Be careful -- with quotations, you can damn anything."
Andre Malraux (1901 - 1976)

_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#216959 - 12/26/05 04:47 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Isn't there a problem in that the notion of 'tortured genius' is about as accurate as 'tortured artist'.

There are plenty of people NOT tortured or miserable but, damn it, they just aren't as interesting to us!
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#216960 - 12/27/05 02:43 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Trevek, as you are probably the only genius in Poland who is truly / really happy, should I change my signature to "I'll rather be right then a genius"? as geniuses are no longer in vogue and get called all sorts of unpleasant things
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#216961 - 12/27/05 03:36 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

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Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Quote:

Think of the concept of an unhappy moron - is that as impossible as a happy genius?




Case in point: A genius would be in bed right now, and I will be very unhappy tomorrow morning.
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#216962 - 12/27/05 04:36 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
BrianS Offline
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Quote:

Trevek, as you are probably the only genius in Poland who is truly / really happy, should I change my signature to "I'll rather be right then a genius"? as geniuses are no longer in vogue and get called all sorts of unpleasant things




I'd change it to I'd rather be happy than right.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#216963 - 12/27/05 09:14 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: BrianS]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
I'll rather wait for a second opinion from our genius in Poland before committing myself to such an important decision
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I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#216964 - 12/27/05 09:40 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
go with majority on this one:

"I'll rather be happy than right" - gets 2 hits on google....both are yours.

"I'd rather be happy than right" - gets nearly 500.


'happy' and 'right' and not mutually exclusive.

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#216965 - 12/27/05 11:16 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
trevek Offline
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Posts: 3331
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Sadly chaps, I'm more of a tortured artist...

If I was a genius I'd work out how to get a job which allows me to train more often...
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See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#216966 - 12/27/05 02:40 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
nenipp Offline
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Posts: 1205
Nono trevek, you can fool yourself, but you won't fool me!

You are a genius and you're lazy, so you find a job that gives you the perfect excuse to not train enough

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#216967 - 12/27/05 06:39 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: its_only_a_name]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
You should write a book, or maybe not that'll only give you food for your ego. You stated a few things that feed our ego, yet the impression Im getting is that the ego is always there regardless of whether we feed it or not, we only control the size of it but its presence is constant, kinda like a virus, always there, never leaving us whether we realise it or not.

You say you do not wish to be recognised, that you are only in a search for truth, like you wish you were not there (I know you never said this).

Really when I think of ego, study myself and I see everything I do is based on ego whether directly or indirectly.

I see myself as a perfect example of ego, everything I do I realise I do it for myself to fufil my own desires.

It can be totally showing off or helping somebody, it all comes down to me.

Lets refur to all desire for the sake of the arguement as greed.

When I show off, I want to feel good, to have everybody stare in awe at my power if I get this result I am happy, I have shown them things they have never seen before (I have shown these people something new), I have achieved something, what I wanted my greed has been fufiled for now.

When I help someone I happy because I'm doing what people consider to be a good thing or the right thing, this makes me happy with myself, I create a self image, Im helping this person its the right thing to do (feeding my ego).
Im greedy for wanting to be better than I am.

When Im with someone I like, I want to make them happy, but this is for my own happiness (when this person is happy Im happy), once I have done this I feel I have achieved something (feeding my ego), Im greedy for wanting to effect something for my own pourpouses.

When I see something in the shop window and I can afford it, and then I buy it (I've got what I want, now I'm happy), Im greedy for wanting to get something and then getting it, I've fed my ego by expanding my belongings.

By writing this Im feeding my ego, I'm happy for trying to give you infomation and help you (I've given you my knowledge and tried to help you, Im happy)

By writing this I proven my own existance (I have something for people to remember me by, Im happy)

When I tell someone of something Im happy cause they have taken an interest in me, they have acknowledged my existance (this has fed my ego, I now know Im a worthwhile person), Im greedy for being happy that I am acknowledged.

For following zen, trying to see truth, for trying to extinguish my ego, Im greedy, greedy for wanting to gain truth and greedy for getting rid of my ego (Im becoming a better person, Im happy for gaining the self title of better person by losing my ego)

I see, I do, I feel, I think, I breath, whatever I do it all comes down to me, happiness and ego.

Im sorry if this does'nt make sense (Im happy for compensating any mistakes ny saying sorry in advance, I consider saying sorry a good thing, the right thing to do, feeding my ego).

By studying Ma, becoming stronger, I knowingly am aware I have more power than others, Im happy that I can defend myself against any weakling that tries to harm me, this adds to my ego.

By studying MA I have obtained I high level of dispipline Knowing this I am happy add this adds to my ego.

You can apply this reasoning to any thing you do, do you notice this in your self?
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#216968 - 12/28/05 05:10 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
nenipp Offline
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Quote:

You can apply this reasoning to any thing you do, do you notice this in your self?




Certainly, it's part of learning to know your own mind and how it works. Imho it's better to be aware of this than not to, because that's the way I work, either way.

The thing is, all this is fleeting, not only the things and feelings with which I'm feeding my Ego, but also the Ego it(my)self.
So in this physical aspect of reality where we live, things work the way they work, loosing Ego is about letting go of the whole thing, not about fooling myself as to the motives behind my actions and words.

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#216969 - 12/28/05 07:34 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
trevek Offline
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OK, I suppose I'd better do some work (even being lazy is a struggle occassionally)

Quote:

"I'll rather be right then a genius"?




The difference between this and the proposed "I would rather be a genius" is that the use of 'will' makes it into a prediction of sorts. If we accept the slight alteration of standard grammar into a poetic form we might consider the use of 'rather' as either meaning preference or an expression of strong belief.

So, in this case "I will rather be right then a genius" could be taken to mean "I predict that I will be right (rather than wrong) and then I shall be a genius (afterwards)"

Of course, the word 'then' might be a typo but it also suggests a freudian slip along the lines of predicting your future genius (albeit unconciously) and so reitterating the matter of ego and genius.

The second phrase "I would rather be right than a genius" suggests a conditional element. The use of 'would' suggests an imaginary future in that you don't know if/whether you are going to be either right or a genius or whether the choice will arise. However, SHOULD it appear then of the two you suggest a preference for being right over being a genius.

Therefore, depending on whether you would like your tailnote to demonstarte preference or prediction would be the motivation about which change to adopt.

Does that help?
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#216970 - 12/28/05 07:37 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: nenipp]
trevek Offline
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Damn, rumbled at last!!!! nenip, truly wisdom is your middle name.

Could the book mentioned above be called "The ego has landed"?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#216971 - 12/28/05 12:20 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Quote:

Damn, rumbled at last!!!! nenip, truly wisdom is your middle name.

Could the book mentioned above be called "The ego has landed"?




Were you refurring to my post?
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#216972 - 12/29/05 12:38 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Does that help?




You were trying to help? What happens when you are not

Now I am even more confused; am I a genius now, but don't know it, or I (subconsciously) long to be a genius sometime in the future, but don't know when.

So while I ponder on the profound implication of your advise and as a temporary compromise, I'll just stick to the simple and inoffensive one appearing now.

I didn't know being or getting to be a genius can be so mentally taxing

I always thought once you are a genius, everything becomes so easy and you don't even need to think.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#216973 - 12/29/05 01:31 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Christie Offline
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Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

I always thought once you are a genius, everything becomes so easy and you don't even need to think.




The problem is the more you know, the more you have to think about.

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#216974 - 12/29/05 02:31 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Christie]
BrianS Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I always thought once you are a genius, everything becomes so easy and you don't even need to think.




The problem is the more you know, the more you have to think about.




Thank goodness I can't remember everything I know!
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#216975 - 12/29/05 04:47 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: BrianS]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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No, the real problem is that the more you know, the more serious mundane matters become.

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#216976 - 12/29/05 04:55 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
BrianS Offline
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What does that mean,or do I have to be a genius to figure it out?
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#216977 - 12/29/05 05:56 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
trevek Offline
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Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Dauragon, yes I was referring to your mention of a book (all in good jesting, I hope you realise)

Butterfly, sorry to have burned your brain, but you sought the words of one thou had proclaimed 'genius'!

Perhaps the pain of genius is not that one declares oneself 'genius' but other make you so and thus impose an ego onto that which formally had none.

Retire to your former anonimity of 'undeclared genius' and rest safely behind the original footnote, happy in your ignorance of your own possible genius.

I can't wait for the holidays to finish so I can get back to work. I obviously have too much time on my hands!!!!
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#216978 - 12/29/05 12:45 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Christie Offline
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Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

No, the real problem is that the more you know, the more serious mundane matters become.




Which comes from over-complicating things because you know more of the variables and possible outcomes involved .. ie. thinking too much

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#216979 - 12/29/05 12:59 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Christie]
Christie Offline
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Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
I find for me much of my - not so much unhappiness, because I'm very happy with my life - but dissatisfaction with my performence (referring to school mostly) is the falling short of the expectations others have of me because of their false notions of my ability and intelligence.

I don't know where my friends recieved the notions that "I'm a freaking computer" or that "well I shouldn't ask you, two hours for you is 2 days for us" or the basis behind their constant question of "is there anything I'm not good at." Whenever I don't actually get the grade they think I should have I never hear the end of it and suddenly the reason for the poor performence has nothing to do with what I did but every possible outside factor they can think of ... how could it be possible for Christie to be less then perfect?

I'm already an over-achiever - this doesn't help.

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#216980 - 12/29/05 03:55 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Christie]
trevek Offline
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This goes with my comment about other people giving you an 'ego'. By whose standards are you over-achieving, theirs or yours. No reason to feel guilty but if you don't over-achieve they'll probably tell you something like 'your under-achieving and wasting your talent"!

That's the crap I had (so i became a puppeteer)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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#216981 - 12/29/05 04:16 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
Christie Offline
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Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

'your under-achieving and wasting your talent"!




This is the reason why I am in university right now. When I told my grade 12 chemisty teacher that I had no intention to pursue post-secondary education he said that would be a "waste of intelligence." All through highschool I wanted to be a bush pilot - either search and rescue or pilot-for-hire for hunting/fishing/sight-seeing trips etc. - but in a span of two weeks I changed my mind and now here I am in Aerospace Engineering because a teacher said it would otherwise be a 'waste of intelligence.'

We all know we have nothing to prove and the only expectations that should matter are the expecations we have of ourselves however we also all know thats rarely how it happens.

What I find irriating and have gone on many rants about this in my online journal since the beginning of university is that: If I do poorly, there is something seriously wrong or its a mistake, if I do well, I didn't give everything I had, if I do amazing, thats just what was expected and nothing else.

I find myself sometimes intentionally trying to be mediocre, nothing more then the average, just to steer everyone away from this preconceived notion everyone has about me ... its not that I always have the answers, its that everyone else just asks the right questions at the right time.

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#216982 - 12/29/05 04:45 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Christie]
trevek Offline
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Don't try to be mediocre, it can become a habit and be a bit soul destroying. What i'd suggest is work out where the middle line is so you can cruise it and express yourself as and when you feel the need.

I didn't go to university until i was 25. I decided to go when i found myself stuck in crappy factory jobs, getting older and looking more like the old guys in the factory. I went to uni on my terms.

OK, I was doing arts, but I found a point where I could cruise the not so interesting stuff and then hammer hard the areas i wanted to concentrate on (of course, I was doing a course I wanted to do).

If it's any help, one friend of mine studied neuro-physiology because his father is a doctor. Eventually he said 'to hell with it' (after his degree) and started a recording/production company.

At least after the degree you can say you've done what they wanted and show them the finger.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#216983 - 12/30/05 01:53 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Christie, you're not the one with an IQ of 181 who just failed out of college, and not a university either, but a JC. At least you're doing a mediocre job, and not a miserably failing one. The worst part is that some semesters I was there because I wanted to be, and gave everything I had at the start of the semester. I would just burn out halfway through.

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#216984 - 12/30/05 02:46 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
ummm...just so everyone knows the ranges we are talking about:
the intelligence quotient is defined as 100 times the Mental Age (MA) divided by the Chronological Age (CA).
IQ = 100 MA/CA.

100 = average.
111 to 120 = bachelors or master's degree
125 to 132 = Dr. degree
137 to 150 = professor/scientist
150 to 160 -> Lincoln, Copernicus, Jefferson
160 to 174 -> Descartes, Einstein, Spinoza
174 to 200 -> Shakespeare, Goethe, Newton

bushi, please tell me you aren't suggesting you are the IQ equivalent of Isaac Newton or Einstein. because then I'd have to laugh.

p.s. Christie
Quote:

All through highschool I wanted to be a bush pilot...


what is a 'bush pilot'? one that doesn't show up for work?

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#216985 - 12/30/05 04:33 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ed -

I think you bring up a valuable point here. There is a great similarity between IQ and belt rank. Both are attempts to categorize people by an assumed amount of learning. The problem with both, is that they do not take into account for the ability for the person in question to apply their knowledge in a functional manner.

So you end up with some college educated folks working fairly menial jobs, still living with their parents at age 30, and some high school drop-outs that have decent jobs and purchased their own homes.

Similarly, you might see black belts with little functional SD skills, because they do not practice for application - even though they may know lots of techniques.

And I think it boils down to the same thing - to be proficient with any skill, you have to use it.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#216986 - 12/30/05 08:50 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Posts: 6768
IQ does not equal intellegence. someone could be 'street-smart' with a low IQ yet be considered intellegent.

just like belt-rank doesn't mean skill.

belts and IQ are artifical measuring sticks. Intellegence and skill are demonstratable and real-world.

thats why the terms 'genius' and 'soke' -in and of themselves don't really hold much meaning to me. a genius is someone who scored high on an IQ test. a soke is someone who created a style name.

those acts alone won't make or break a persons happiness.

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#216987 - 12/30/05 08:53 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
You know, this whole discussion about a number. I have heard that there are different types of intelligence. Does anyone want to address that?

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#216988 - 12/30/05 09:10 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
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I thought I did. my last post downplays the significance of any title and places merit on ability.

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#216989 - 12/30/05 09:15 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
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Yes, you did. I was just adding on to your post...has anyone discussed different types of intelligence? I mean, I thought I read somewhere that there was emotional intelligence, physical...etc. Or is that B.S.?

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#216990 - 12/30/05 09:27 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
oh
I would think emotional maturity has a lot to do with happiness. Ever go to dinner with someone who feels comfortable enough to just sit and eat without talking? thats emotional maturity and I've noticed those people tend to be happy....some geniuses are like that.

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#216991 - 12/30/05 09:40 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
You are thinking about 'wisdom' perhaps?

True intelligence is having the wisdom to recognise the limitation of one's intelligence?

I like the dictionary definition of 'intelligence' -- 'The ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience'

The question is of course, does conventional education 'improves' one's intelligence, emotional or otherwise.
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#216992 - 12/30/05 09:46 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
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Ahhh....wisdom. I'll reflect on that. Thanks.

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#216993 - 12/31/05 06:45 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
nenipp Offline
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Posts: 1205
One could use the word intelligence when discussing different types of abilities or talents, such as kinestethic- musical- etc, but I'm not sure what the point of that would be?

The psychometric intelligence that IQ tests try to measure, is, as you people noted, only a kind if "raw material" that can be used more or less effectively by it's owner.

The formula...
("the intelligence quotient is defined as 100 times the Mental Age (MA) divided by the Chronological Age (CA).IQ = 100 MA/CA.")
...is b.t.w outdated, although in the childhood of testing it was used in that way. The term IQ has suvived, although it's no longer a question of a quotient as such.
The raw data from tests are nowadays sqeezed into a bell curve, that compares you to the population in general, and out pops your number
The term g (for general intelligence) is much used and all other aspects of intelligence seem to more or less correlate to this, which is what the tests usually try to measure.

The standard deviation of the test is of vital importance, for the number to have any significance. E.g in a test with a S.D of 15 one would have to be pretty sharp to get >130, whereas in another test with a S.D of 24, the same brain would (theoretically) get >148. Thus the numbers by themselves have no meaning, unless you know the S.D.

I have not seen any evidence that would suggest psychometric intelligence to correlate negatively with happiness, have you?

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#216994 - 12/31/05 06:55 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: nenipp]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
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Nope. I kinda think it has more to do with angst, myself.

I mean, my idea of heaven/happiness is me and a couple of close friends hanging around on a sunny day, drinking wine and talking higher math. Not that I could participate much in the discussion...but just to watch and bath in the brilliance would be enough.

Perhaps happiness is being less centered around one's self.

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#216995 - 12/31/05 04:07 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: harlan]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Ok, Ed, we'll use the more objective way of mentioning Intelligence, I score in the top 1%. As far as my ability to learn, I am up somewhere with Einstein and company. Now, I don't have any plans to make defining calculations and theories regarding the workings of our physical universe or anything, but I am more than capable of learning the material to be in that position. Laugh all you want, I don't really care.

Quote:

Perhaps happiness is being less centered around one's self.




That is definitely part of the truth. Another part of the truth seems to be the whole thing about having a fullfilling job. In fact, the 20/20 special last night covered that, showing that people who have fullfilling jobs are far happier than people with "stuff" and money. To go back to Einstein, he was not a happy man in his life, but he seemed less unhappy toward the end of his life, when all his studies and theories began to mean something. It was fullfilling to him to see that he had doen something worthwhile.

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#216996 - 12/31/05 04:39 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Ed_Morris Offline
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wasn't laughing at you, bushi - I agree people rarely live to their potential. saying you are as mentally capable as Einstein is one thing. living to that potential is another. I thought you were about to suggest you are currently the equivalent, to which I would have avoided commenting on until someone changed the subject.

Einstein being a German born Jewish pacifist in an ethically war-torn world, seeing his principals made into weapons of mass destruction and proliferating might have had something to do with his unhappiness as well.

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#216997 - 12/31/05 10:11 PM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Ed_Morris]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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There was alot going on in Einstein's life to be unhappy about. At least he got to see that some of his theories made a positive difference in his life before he died.

I make no claim to being anywhere near the theorist Einstein was. Besides, studying physics beyond the basic levels doesn't interest me. Physical activity and development do. So does strategy and deployment. I might not remain an enlisted man, but after a while fullfill the qualifications to become a commisioned officer. I think I would do very well in a military career. If I'm going to make claims that border on irrational, then I might as well claim that I could end up in the same league as Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, or Eisenhower. Obviously, not now, but maybe down the road.

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#216998 - 01/01/06 02:25 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Ed_Morris Offline
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good spirit.

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#216999 - 01/01/06 05:18 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
I sincerely hope to live long enough to see that day.

Meanwhile, how is boot camp?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#217000 - 01/02/06 01:37 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Jan. 24, and not a day sooner, BP. I'm looking forward to getting there, but I do want to enjoy the time I have left being free. BTW, there will be about 3.5 months of my absence while I'm in training. That would be because I have OSUT instead of BCT and AIT.

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#217001 - 01/03/06 03:06 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
trevek Offline
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Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
See, Bushi is happy cos he's getting 'connected'. Have fun Bushi.
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Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#217002 - 01/04/06 11:53 AM Re: Why geniuses are never REALLY happy! [Re: trevek]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
If you are a genius...I have faith that you will figure it out.

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