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#216759 - 12/28/05 05:12 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: Isshinryukid4life]
Deltaforce69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 81
Hey chill out man!

Actually we are saying the same thing that in reality what appears to be blocks in the kata are strike techniques.As long as my knowledge........

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#216760 - 12/28/05 05:17 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: BrianS]
Deltaforce69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 81
nope just wanted to know how many people really believed that in a fight in the street for instance Jodan uke (found many times in katas) would work with the applications they usually teach no-clue instructors or i believe okinawans purposely....

How many people use that blocks with success in a full contact sparring??? how many people use naturally instead parries...

Just wanted to stress that the real meanings of the katas are far from being easy as u think.....


Edited by Deltaforce69 (12/28/05 05:19 AM)

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#216761 - 12/28/05 05:27 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: Deltaforce69]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Most people who do kata for a good length of time become aware of the difference in real and sport applications. Sport karate "no clue" instructors will still teach sport applications as they were taught.

For example: Jodan Uke can be an arm break,strike to throatetc. The chamber is used for push/pull two way action or trapping.
The sport application would be using your forearm to block a downward strike.

Is this what you are getting at?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#216762 - 12/28/05 06:31 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: BrianS]
Deltaforce69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 81
you know what i mean..

My sport karate example was to reiterate that when you put a person in a fighting situation (full contact or street) he will naturally use parries instead of those blocks. So my question is why these blocks appear all the time in the katas?

Because i believe that the okinwans were no stupid, my answer is they are no blocks but final part of strikes or attacking techniques hence the close punches.

So why there are still okinawans and japanese master and western instructor that teaches that ridiculous applications that in the street will never never work?? I have my theory......

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#216763 - 12/28/05 06:36 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: Deltaforce69]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I have my theory......




Let's hear it!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#216764 - 12/28/05 06:49 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: BrianS]
Deltaforce69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 81
haha!

nothing complicated; before i want to make another example muay thai (very effective and fighting oriented) how many pages in manual or dvds are dedicated to blocks very few!! they use only parries.

I believe karate is very effective but they are two type of karate:
karate jitsu and karatedo

Karate jitsu the old type of karate is not taught anymore for several reasons (many younger okinawans have learned the karatedo and teach it as been taught, the few old remaining masters that they know it such Moryo Higaonna and others teaches only few (family etc.) and teach the wide pubblic karatedo; japanese at the beginning, as americans marines have been taught by okinawans the diluted version, went home and taught it the same way and so on...)

Professor Don Draeger (one of the most important historian of asian martial arts and very effective fighter)said..

I advice to read this
Do you believe that the modern martial arts systems are, as Draeger once wrote in reference to Japanese karate-do, ďan ass in a tigerís skinĒ?

Again, this gets back to what we discussed before regarding belief systems. karate that has evolved in Japan since it was taken out of Okinawa, never evolved for combat nor was designed for combat nor had anything to do with combat. Modern Japanese karate evolved toward a totally different end. Now, there are plenty of good, functional karate guys who can go out and do fine in a fight, but itís probably more to do with their own personal abilities than the type of karate they train in.

The problem is that we lump all karate together, where you should have the old classical Okinawan karate-jutsu as versus the modern Japanese karate-do. Again, the modern karate-do is not designed for real fighting, itís not evolved for fighting, and it isnít very good for fighting.
-----
so now u know my theory


Edited by Deltaforce69 (12/28/05 06:50 AM)

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#216765 - 12/28/05 07:11 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: Deltaforce69]
StayUnderMyWing Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 139
Loc: London, England
The traditional blocks of Karate are not blocks. Well, not entirely.

There is one simple problem.

"Traditional" Karate is taught incorrectly in 99.999999% of dojos.

Do a bit of research, find the real answers. Each "block" in Karate has a plethora of practical applications that are easily usable on the street. In fact, each one should be able to incapacitate and opponent with no further moves attached.

For example, ONE bunkai for Jodan Age Uke (Upper Rising Block) would be the following:

1. Left arm extends into parry/finger thrust to eyes
2. Simultaneous right punch to centre line
3. Right grab arm and twist off balance (hikite)
4. Left Forearm smash to jawline (ST-5).

Look at each "block". It has both hands working, both feet. Each one is a KO, but are taught as simply a defensive move. Do people really think this is how they were designed originally?????? They were designed in much more violent times than now!!! They were intended for damage, not sport. As such, it is naive to think the weakness is in the system, rather than the current teaching.

It's hard to describe in words, but there are so many applications. They are only taught as blocks because most older practitioners are embarrassed to admit they don't know it. After WWII, the real meanings disappeared, and Karate-Do was all that was left.

The West thought they were learning a great fighting art but in fact were wielding a gun with no bullets.

Mark.




Mark.
_________________________
www.ukscreen.com/cast/markjoseph

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#216766 - 12/28/05 07:15 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: StayUnderMyWing]
Deltaforce69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 81
I know that (I teach karate and having been taught by let's say very good asian master). Glad you agree on my point,

They told me that u would undertsand in okinawa if the class was about karate jitsu if the instructors on the front row they missed their teeth...just to state how different it was

actually if many instructors would stop to teach that nonsense in the dojo many people would join karate instead of mixed martial arts classes, muay thai etc...

very sad


Edited by Deltaforce69 (12/28/05 07:20 AM)

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#216767 - 12/28/05 07:18 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: Deltaforce69]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
'How many people use that block (jodan age uke) with success in a full contact sparring???'

depends on your understanding and technical performance of jodan age uke actually, from a wedge guard position it does 'absorb' big hooks rather well, however this would be as a defensive measure, in a controled fight IMO and not particulary usefull for the street (it needs to extend 'in' to the attacking limb alot more)- and has alot to do with tired fighters.

but my point is that I see it alot in pro boxing.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#216768 - 12/28/05 08:01 AM Re: karate blocks [Re: StayUnderMyWing]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

"Traditional" Karate is taught incorrectly in 99.999999% of dojos.





Yet,everyone on these boards know the 'real' applications.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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