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#216188 - 12/20/05 10:47 PM What techniques did Kano drop?
SubZero Offline
Will breakfall for food

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 141
Does anyone know of some examples of dangerous jujutsu techniques that Kano scrapped?

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#216189 - 12/21/05 12:19 PM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: SubZero]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I was under the impression that he removed most of the striking element.
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#216190 - 12/21/05 01:01 PM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: SubZero]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
All of the stand up kicks, strikes and grappling neck cranks. And maybe knee bars and or ankle hooks.
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#216191 - 12/21/05 09:02 PM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: SubZero]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I thought he also dropped the ones he thought wasn't useful, those moves that could only be done while practicing but when under extreme pressure and resisting opponent would turn into something awkward.

But I think he removed most of the ground-fighting. I sense that Judo is very thin on Newaza, although we do have good techniques, I feel they are very few. Jujutsu has a lot more.

-Taison out
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#216192 - 12/22/05 06:50 AM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: Taison]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I would like to hear the actual techniques if possible. I've always wondered about this myself.
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#216193 - 12/22/05 09:05 AM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: Leo_E_49]
SubZero Offline
Will breakfall for food

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 141
I'm not sure about him eliminating most of the striking element. I'm not sure what jujutsu was like back then but it seems that striking isn't emphasized anyway. Also, as far as judo ground work goes I think it just depends more on your sensei. Our sensei heavily emphasizes ground work.

But yeah, examples of specific techniques were actually what I was looking for.
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#216194 - 12/22/05 09:54 AM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: SubZero]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
JJ PRIOR to the Gracies BJJ was considered too dangerous, to have tournaments. So they sometimes entered Karate meets, once in a 78-79s tournament I was hit in the thorat with hariken (pulled fore knuckle strike I still remember that!!!) by a JJ guy at Brown belt level, bare knuckes back then. He was cautioned and the bout went on after I recovered, it was tough back in those days.

But Judo was heavy in 4 areas THROWS, Grappling, locks and Chokes. I don't know about taking out ineffective moves, I remember seeing fly siccisor throws in a 80s self defense demo by a Judo man!

The difference is that JJ would starts at striking range with hands and feet, then throws that would land you on the corner of the body, or lock your arm in the air whereas when you hit the ground you broke your arm or leg, then it would Incoperate the grappling/arresting techniques, body locks, strikes if need be, and chokes/neck cranks.

Judo was basic safe JJ. The advantage of Judo is that it practiced want it preached you fought resisting opponents daily. Asked anybody that visited a Judo dojo in the 60-70s or Kodokan in Japan they tried to hurt you there.

Gracies Jijitsu is more like Judo with the a twist. Remember their Japanese Instructor was a Judo man!
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#216195 - 12/22/05 03:18 PM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: Neko456]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Neko,

Where did you get that information from? Your post sounds like modern day Judo, but that is not necessarily the Judo Kano created in his day. For Example, he originally wanted Judo to be 3 point matches. The Japanese political machine forced him to change to sudden death. I'm sure politics influenced other areas of his Judo as well, and it's quite possible (likely?) changes were made after his death.

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#216196 - 12/22/05 04:17 PM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: BigRod]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
From watching and training in Judo and JJ from 70s to now. I don't know that much about the Judo in Japan except they'd kick your a$$ if you visited their dojo back then. All in good training that is.
Japanese had an attituded back then, quite is kept, they ruled Judo. JJ was more like Aiki-jujitsu with Karate techniques there was little if any resistance, strikes broke you down, then throws or throws while striking.

As for olympic Judo rules I don't know, we just would randori until it was time to do something else at the Y. Most of the concentration was on throws and then locks, pins and chokes it was just painful fun. Rarely were there point matches.

As for Graices Uncle's Japanese instructor being Judo thats common knowledge.


Edited by Neko456 (12/22/05 04:49 PM)

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#216197 - 12/22/05 04:36 PM Re: What techniques did Kano drop? [Re: SubZero]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I will be honest and admit I have a superficial knowledge of Judo, but I do have great admiration for the art and its exponents.

With that said, as far as I understood it Kano did not take atemi out altogether. He taught some atemi to high ranking Judoka, or so I have read. According to the same article, this practice still goes on today, i.e. high ranked Judoka are shown some atemi.

This is just what I have read on the subject. By all means correct me if I am wrong though! I live to learn.
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