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#215079 - 12/27/05 09:49 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Charles Mahan]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
When I say Healthy, I just meant normal ( as in some of the pieces I have been seeing in some dojo have extremely large handles).

My question was really aimed at finding out how some dojo prefer one blade type over another. I have recently been exposed to some systems that go for a slightly longer blade ( for example...a guy my height, 5'5, would be using a 29 inch blade or even a 30). One of the exponents I talked to gave multiple reasons for this (everything from, "it promotes proper form in the draw," to things like "we prefer to cut with the kisaki and thus an extra bit on the end helps with the reach"). I don't know how credible the information is as it was one of the students and not the actual instructor. Thought I would post and get some feedback on it.

Regards,
Walt
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#215080 - 12/27/05 09:58 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Walter Wong]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Quote:

Walt, you're a member of the Providence, R.I. Suio Ryu group? You must know of Fred, Steve and a new guy Greg.
They're friends of mine. From what I've seen of Suio Ryu from them, though I haven't seen a class, I haven't noticed any "healthy lengthy handles". Do you mean they use long tsuka like 13 inches and longer when you say "healthy lengthy handles"? I thought Suio Ryu uses anywhere from the 10 to 12 inch range for tsuka.

So far I'm only aware of styles like Nami Ryu, Yanagi Ryu, Yoshida-ha, Shindo Yoshin Ryu and Kage Ryu using long handles. Not sure what other ryu-ha uses long handles.




Hey Walter,

Much like Charles' posts, I love to cruise the different sites and read your posts. I have not officially joined the Suio Study Group in RI yet. I have gone to some workshops and had a blast with it. Steve actually helped me during a good portion of one of the workshops and it was a real eye opening (me knees were killing me from all the seated kata...sheesh...tough to get old).

The instructor for the group is not only knowledgeable but also personable ("don't call me sensei")and as soon as some of the junk in my schedual clears, I will take her up on her offer to play with them (I hate it when my real life gets in the way of me wearing a dress and swinging really expensive cutlery!)


Edited by kroh (12/27/05 10:01 AM)
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#215081 - 12/27/05 10:09 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well the reasonss you were given for different lengthed swords sounds reasonable enough. There are tradeoffs where swordlength is concerned. A longer swords gives you extra reach, allowing you to cut your opponent before he can cut you, but it's harder to draw, heavier, more unwieldy, etc. different styles have a general preference as to what is the appropriate length.

At 5'6" I use a 2-4-5, which is to say about 29" or so. I do Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu under the auspices of the MJER Seitokai. Another branch of MJER, such as the Komei Jyuku, would proscribe a somewhat longer blade.


Edited by Charles Mahan (12/27/05 10:11 AM)
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#215082 - 12/27/05 10:19 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Charles Mahan]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Nice...thank you very much for the info.

On a side note...In addition to wanting to train with the Suio Ryu group, I was told by a friend that he might know some one in Rhode Island teaching MJER.

I had heard of some one not to long ago teaching out of Rhode Island Aikido but it is my understanding as he is no longer there. I have not been introduced to the new teacher but when I find out more I'll do some posting.

Regards,
Walt
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#215083 - 12/27/05 10:34 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I have information on two MJER dojos in Rhode Island. They are Jikishinkai dojos so different from the MJER that Walter and I study.



RI Martial Arts Academy
Contact: Thomas Duffy
27 Deming St
Pawtucket, RI 02861 USA
email: Thomas Duffy - duffy@cox.net
www: http://www.risword.com/ (Not functional at last check, but still listed with http://www.jikishin-kai.com/rhodeisland.htm )


Quote:
Shindokan Budo
Contact: Erik Johnston
37 New London Turnpike
Wyoming, RI 02898 USA
email: Erik Johnstone - eajohnstone@cox.net
www: http://members.cox.net/shindokan/


Edited by Charles Mahan (12/27/05 10:37 AM)
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#215084 - 12/27/05 10:39 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Charles Mahan]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Nice...I had contacted Mr. Duffy some time ago but by the time that I got down to the dojo to talk to him, I guess he had moved locations (and the web site was down).

Thank you very much for the information. AS there seems to be more than one branch of the MJER, would you be willing to post the differences if I were to start a thread on it?

Regards,
Walt
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#215085 - 12/27/05 01:48 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Heh. I don't know the other brances well enough to give you anything more than some very surface details. They are different organizations with different people running them at the top. The Jikishinkai is led by Miura-sensei. The Seitokai/ZNIR is led by Ikeda-soke. The Komei Jyuku is led by Sekiguchi Komei-sensei. There are other branches. The largest in terms of membership is the Seitokai/ZNIR, but that doesn't make it inherently superior or inferior. Tameshigiri is officially banned by the Seitokai/ZNIR line of MJER. Not so in the others. There are technical differences, but theoretically the kihon, basics, are mostly the same from branch to branch.

Most of what I know about the other branches is just enough to fill a thimble. Down here in Denton, Tx the nearest non-Seitokai MJER is out in Lubbock(Komei Jyuku), which is around 6 hours away.
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#215086 - 12/28/05 12:30 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
Walt,

Steve is a cool guy. From what I've seen of his Suio Ryu, though I don't know Suio Ryu, it looks good to me.

But for seitokai style MJER, I should be using a 2-4-5, 29 inch blade like Charles. I am currently using a 2-3-5, 28 inch blade for MJER. My Sensei told me I can just get a longer one later so a shorter sword for now is fine. My tsuka on my Iaito is 10 inches.

In Nami Ryu I am suggested to use a 28.5 inch blade with a 13 inch tsuka. I was told I could push it to 29.5 inch blade which would be acceptable as well with the 13 inch tsuka. But could use a 27.5 inch blade if 28.5 is not available with a 13 inch tsuka. So currently using a 27.5 inch blade with 13 inch tsuka in Nami Ryu.
I think aside from my height, 5'7", and the length of my arm, I think the with or size of my body help dictated the tsuka length. Because there is someone else in Nami Ryu who is shorter than me using a 14 inch tsuka.
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#215087 - 12/28/05 02:54 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Walter Wong]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Quote:

In Nami Ryu...



When does the Nami Ryu consider the use of a live blade for training? How soon after a student starts in the group do they even advance to sword techniques?

Thanks
Regards,
Walt
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#215088 - 12/28/05 03:47 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
In Nami Ryu, Iaito does not exist. You supposedly just stick with bokken, and I heard that you move on to shinken when the instructor feels comfortable enough to be right next to you with a shinken in your hand. Obviously if you don't seem ready for one, they won't feel comfortable around you with a shinken in your hand so you'll stick with bokken til otherwise told.

But being in Iaido and using an Iaito I guess helped me become familiar with a blade so when I showed up to a Nami Ryu seminar, I was using a Bugei sword I purchased. There was no complaint on me using a live blade. James Williams himself was using a live blade and had me use a live blade to show some example of some techniques. For Nami Ryu, I think it's on an individual basis and not everyone will start with a shinken at the same stage of their training.
I didn't ask about the specifics of the progression to shinken in Nami Ryu. I'll ask next time I talk to James or any of his certified Nami Ryu instructors how the progression toward shinken is done. I'm sure someone who is a self taught swordsman playing with a Practical Katana would be discouraged from starting with a shinken.

Different ryu-ha, different way of progression to shinken among the many other things of the way things are handled and done.
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