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#215069 - 12/21/05 11:11 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Amos Smith]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Huh. Ok. I'd done some internet searches and had thought the connection was supposed to be with Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu. Thanks for clearing that up.

Your sword to height ratio is about what mine is I think. To each their own on the live blade thing, but i've seen a fair number of new students begin training iai. If sensei was to start putting live blades in their hands on the first day of class and then try to have them do Iai the way we do it, I guarantee you we would lose students to maiming injuries with frightening regularity.

This begs a further question. Just how do new students resheath their swords the way you describe? How can they possibly know where the kissaki is in relationship to the koiguchi? How do they avoid sticking themselves in the hand everytime they try?


Edited by Charles Mahan (12/21/05 11:14 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#215070 - 12/22/05 09:04 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Amos Smith]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

Truth is, the only one who knows if we are gendai or koryu is Lovret Sensei, and he won't say. Amid MUCH speculation, the only way to find out about our art remains to be getting on the mat.




Not to put a fine point on it, but if Lovret sensei won't say, then there is no way to find out. Getting on the mat can go towards proving effectiveness, but not historical authenticity.

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#215071 - 12/22/05 01:00 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: splice]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Thanks Amos, I appreciate it.

Sebastien,
Actually I think he was referring to finding anything about how the waza looks and works, not about its history.
_________________________
Paul

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#215072 - 12/22/05 06:58 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Charles Mahan]
Amos Smith Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/00
Posts: 133
Loc: Wisconsin
Quote:

This begs a further question. Just how do new students resheath their swords the way you describe? How can they possibly know where the kissaki is in relationship to the koiguchi? How do they avoid sticking themselves in the hand everytime they try?




Great questions. I started to write out a reply based on what I teach as well as the way I was taught...but then I realized the answer was so simple...come the dojo and find out. ^_^

Amos
_________________________
Amos Smith Koshi-no-Dojo www.chicagobudokai.com

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#215073 - 12/22/05 09:12 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Amos Smith]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:


Great questions. I started to write out a reply based on what I teach as well as the way I was taught...but then I realized the answer was so simple...come the dojo and find out. ^_^

Amos




No thanks, I have my own fish to fry and a great many other places I would rather go on my exceedingly meager funds. Thanks for the offer though.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#215074 - 12/23/05 10:28 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Charles Mahan]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
For those out there with severe knowledge on this subject (those who say iai first with iaito), what are the indicators that you would look for signalling that a student is ready for a shinken?

When they are ready for the real thing...do you make them get the real thing (as in from a Japanese smith or some one trained in Japan) or is internet mail order Paul Chen or Last Legend, or something like Bugei Trading Co. the order of the day?

http://kroh1.tripod.com/Chronicle/Kenji2-2.jpg

Is the whole shinken thing based on observation of the student for their own good and for the safety of the dojo (I don't think I would feel comfy training with some one who wore a Rouruni Kenshin T-shirt into the Dojo and then onto the floor under his Dogi...animae rats seeking martial arts instruction scare the hell out of me for some reason)?

Thanks in advance guys...
Happy Holidays to those that celebrate,
Regards,
Walt


Edited by kroh (12/23/05 10:31 AM)
_________________________
Fight the Good Fight

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#215075 - 12/23/05 10:43 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I knew it was time to get a live blade when sensei told me it was time. I don't feel qualified to decide when someone else is ready to make the transition. I'm pretty sure I could pick out people who were clearly not ready though.

I suspect it comes down to how well a student manages his nukitsuke and noto. How often he/she comes to class. How comfortable the are with the more dangerous noto and nukitsuke variations. Any number of other factors.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#215076 - 12/23/05 12:25 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: Charles Mahan]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
I know that some systems require a healthy length of handle in conjunction with a blade that really makes you reach (stretch your self out to establish proper form). My brief experiences (litterally just a few classes, time has not permitted me to go back yet) with Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo demonstrated this.

Does the MJER recomend this kind of weapon when selecting an iaito or shinken?

Just curious more than anything.
Regards,
Walt
_________________________
Fight the Good Fight

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#215077 - 12/23/05 11:22 PM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I'm not sure what you mean by a "healthy length of handle". The handles I've seen tend to be of the usual 1 to 3 ratio, ie 10 inch tsuka for a 30 inch blade. If anything maybe they run a touch under that ratio.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#215078 - 12/27/05 09:36 AM Re: Live Ken For Iai Traing Good or Bad [Re: kroh]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
Walt, you're a member of the Providence, R.I. Suio Ryu group? You must know of Fred, Steve and a new guy Greg.
They're friends of mine. From what I've seen of Suio Ryu from them, though I haven't seen a class, I haven't noticed any "healthy lengthy handles". Do you mean they use long tsuka like 13 inches and longer when you say "healthy lengthy handles"? I thought Suio Ryu uses anywhere from the 10 to 12 inch range for tsuka.

So far I'm only aware of styles like Nami Ryu, Yanagi Ryu, Yoshida-ha, Shindo Yoshin Ryu and Kage Ryu using long handles. Not sure what other ryu-ha uses long handles.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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