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#214921 - 12/20/05 06:10 PM Re: Wing Chun [Re: Natron]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

Quote:

One of the instructors explained to me that when he holds his arm out in front of him, he doesnt used muscluar tension to hold it there...I always thought you move because blood fills your muscles causing movement...He told me that first he relaxes his body, just lets go of all tensions. Then he focuses on a certain point in front of him and his hand moving to that point and it happens. But soon as the focus is dropped, the hand drops because it isnt held by muscle.





1) Your muscles aren't filled with blood. They're filled with muscles cells, believe it or not.

2) You can't move your appendages without using muscles. Period.

At the risk of being a smart a**, maybe less astral projection and more biology.

Best of luck on your journey.




Or, the instructor may be talking about muscle memory in a really bad way... I agree with Natron, it doesn't seem like a very sound concept. We can augment our movements with Qi, but to hold aloft our limbs without muscles and with pure focus sounds more like psychokinesis or NTKO Than reality.
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#214922 - 12/22/05 02:22 AM Re: Wing Chun [Re: Natron]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
Obviously u gotta use muscle 2 move, I know that. It's the cause of movement I'm talkin about. Whether its conscious or unsconscious. Unconscious movement is average, conscious movement gives you control. To control your body you first have to become aware of it. The resulting effect is less strain more gain. Wing Chun is not a muscular meat headed sport, its a scientific approach to moving your body, giving direction to life. Anything that develops awareness is good for wing chun, even astral projection. If you could reduce wing chun to its root, it is awareness. So anything works.
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#214923 - 12/22/05 10:17 AM Re: Wing Chun [Re: its_only_a_name]
Natron Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 56
Loc: Illinois, USA
I do WC myself, I understand what you're getting at...it's pretty hard to stay loose when someone is more or less trying to drill you in the face the whole time . And anything you can figure out for better structure is definitely going to be a big help as well. Just didn't want you wasting training time trying to do something impossible.

If you make some headway on that, please post so we can all benefit. Best of luck.

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#214924 - 12/22/05 11:18 AM Re: Wing Chun [Re: its_only_a_name]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I have respect for the mans self discipline and achievments, but he was obsessed with creating a strong ego! He once even said, "One day my name will become a household item!" (just like coke). Fair enough that's his choice, but that statement just shows an inferiority complex, and that's why he brought MA into movies.

Just a word on your statement of he had a inferiority complex. As a minority at that time he was a visionary and obviously had a strong ego, to have even thought he could challenge the powers that be. How many Chinese/Asian actors do we have even today that have made into Hollywood as a leading man without MA skills, their kinda paint in a corner? Not many maybe Sulo of Star Trek fame and even he wasn't the lead. Bruce's has body been laid to rest years ago, but his spirit lives on. He is a Icon just like Coke.

And the reason he brought MA to the movies. As for why Bruce even brought his version of MA to the movies, he brought some realism to MA pictures. I don't know if U remember the MA flims back in the 70-80s. The Chinese or MA flims industries period was based on legends and pure entertainment almost a Joke "The 5 fingers of Death" the hero or villan sliced 100 times and struck 500 times and he staggers back for more. How many remember the Chinese Connection rhk kick (I think) to the grion and eye gouge the guy seen no more. Bruce brought reality to the MA flim industry with some flash. Most people like his kicks, I always liked thoughs fast Wing Chun trained hands and his timing even in stunts you have to be good to pull off some that. I know it was just movies, but have you seen, The 5 fingers of death, ....

Ok back to Wing Chungs elements of success.


Edited by Neko456 (12/22/05 11:23 AM)
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#214925 - 12/23/05 05:38 AM Re: Wing Chun [Re: Neko456]
its_only_a_name Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 23
Haha, dont get me wrong, I love Bruce Lee man. He was the one who inspired me to train 8-9hrs a day everyday for 6 years straight b4 I started college. He is absolutely incredible. It's truly a waste that he died so early! My point was, that ego is a hindrance to complete inner success...coz there a lot of guys and girls I've met who are very good MA's, but they have no real inner depth or understanding about life in general and the higher purpose of MA training. From reading the book "Artist of Life" (a collection of Bruce Lee's uni papers and philosophies) I know he had a much deeper understanding of life than most.

Back to WC, I saw somewhere else a couple of days ago a post saying WC doesnt do a lot of ground work. I can't remember where I saw this, but anyhow, we do quite a lot of groundwork and kicking at my academy. Nothing is left out of our training, elementary wing chun kicks & punches, forms, blocks, grabs, knife attackers, more than 1 attacker, breaks, chi sau and all the drills, groundwork, internal work (more so from level 1 onwards), attacks from behind...there's so much more. Even I was surprised when I first started at how much my school covers!
_________________________
From Dark to Light - Phrost & Shiv-R

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#214926 - 01/19/06 12:42 PM Re: Wing Chun [Re: its_only_a_name]
Wayne_Cheung Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 3
i've practised Wing Chun for a while already. although i still consider myself a rookie, i noticed something while doing all the different pracises.
Always focous on the elbow, giving power into the fists or palm.
my sefu told me afterwards that's an apporpriate way to deliver punches via the middle line of the body.
Think about it, which delivers a more powerful attack , the elbow or the forearm (with the fist at the front )?
I usually relax my whole arm and drive the elbow forwards with my forearm lying horizontaly, That's how my chain punches go and found it pretty effective.
However, i could be wrong, so please correct me if i'm wrong.

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#214927 - 01/19/06 05:09 PM Re: Wing Chun [Re: Natron]
Yuzi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 5
Quote:

Quote:

One of the instructors explained to me that when he holds his arm out in front of him, he doesnt used muscluar tension to hold it there...I always thought you move because blood fills your muscles causing movement...He told me that first he relaxes his body, just lets go of all tensions. Then he focuses on a certain point in front of him and his hand moving to that point and it happens. But soon as the focus is dropped, the hand drops because it isnt held by muscle.





1) Your muscles aren't filled with blood. They're filled with muscles cells, believe it or not.

2) You can't move your appendages without using muscles. Period.

At the risk of being a smart a**, maybe less astral projection and more biology.

Best of luck on your journey.




Sorry for interruption...I'm from Hong Kong and I have very limited english knowledge. I've been training from Grandmaster Chu Song Tin's Wing Chun for years. Chu Song Tin's helped Yip Man to teach all his students during his old age as well. Our linage in the Wing Chun fields is known to be very hard to deal with and even the other Yip Man's students don't like to play sticky hands with Chu because his hands are very heavy. Chu's is around 120-130lb, slim and skinny and there no chance that his hands can be heavy. But when people ask him how to do it, he just simply reply "just stand up straight, using no muscle, put down ur shoulder and relex." But these are just the surface descriptions of how to do it, ever since then ppl starting talking about it without knowing what is it.

2) You can't move your appendages without using muscles.Period.

Believe it or not, we really don't use the forarm muscles but we use out joints, spine and mind instead.

For example: If there is a stronger and heavier guy pushing you and you have to keep balance and not fall back. What you would do is to push back to maintain balance right? But what if he is more muscluar than u and heavier than u? You still get push back. But we wont be able to get pushed away even I am 130lb and the opponent is 200lb, because we know how to connect our joints, abandon the muscle and turn the body into 1 piece instead or 5 pieces(head,2 hands,2legs).So the situation will be like the 200lb guy is pushing a iron wall so all his energy will transfer into the ground instead of you. To make it simple, you just imagine yourself as a conductor and when the lightning hits you, it transfer into the ground. To get this miracle done, you but have to abandon the usage and habbit of the muscle on ur forarms, and shoulders. But this is diffcult beacse you are born to use the forearm to pick up objects.

here is an article then Chu's wrote:
Click here to read

At the end of the video you will see how it's done.

Download here
As a reminder, Chu's is 73 yrs old

Also I dont's understand why people keeping say Wing Chun got no strength and they only have speed... or they hvn't seen any Wing Chun that has internal work out like us in HK. Chu's style Wing Chun is hard to deal against even you mastered you techniques beacuse techniques are useless without real power. During the sticky hand pratice, nobody can roll up Chu's hand no matter how muscular you are. It feels like you are lifting up 100lb object. This is what I'm talknig about puting you body weight out.

Thank you for reading this post, I hope it helps people to understand the real Wing Chun instead of the external movements only.


Edited by Yuzi (01/19/06 09:46 PM)

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#214928 - 02/02/06 11:06 AM Re: Wing Chun [Re: its_only_a_name]
DummyP Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 4
Loc: UK
Hi there, its_only_a_name

about your name: names are useful for reference in forum conversation.

about your wing chun:
It's the same old story, but even the best wing chun teachers are always emphasising the importance of relaxation.

...of course, being relaxed and forwarding is useless unless you've trained the hand techniques well

-------------------

Wing Chun Kung Fu (from a beginners perspective)

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