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#214638 - 12/14/05 08:57 AM Bad Budo and McDojos
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
(Made you look! )

I'm not for it, but how about a discussion on whether or not we should have a subforum for 'Bad Budo'. We can't help ourselves, so why not have a subsection?

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#214639 - 12/14/05 09:12 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

I AM ALL FOR IT!!!!!!!!

eh.......what are we talking about?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#214640 - 12/14/05 09:39 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
The problem is, one person's 'bad budo' is what another calls 'home'.

good/bad ...thats very dualistic of you harlan

I propose to leave the bunkbusting to the experts (bullshido) and reference when issues of MA garbage and rediculous claims comes up. other than that, the way to end conversations really quick with bad budoists or bad budo topics is to either: ignore them, sabotage the thread with humor, or redirect to the appropriate forum.

As launcher of the "you might be in a McDojo if..." thread, I'd be a hipocrite to say I don't enjoy a good super soke story, ki-ball heroics and plaid-belts with matching headbands. but as the issue came up when things hit close to home for some people here...what some called 'bad', others called 'family'. talk about bad budo - that got a little ugly and uncomfortable even though each were stating what they honestly believed and didn't have an agenda to smear.

we shouldn't categorize 'good vs bad' ...since the terms themselves are sometimes the issue. making such a category would itself be 'bad budo'.

just my 'bad' opinion.

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#214641 - 12/14/05 09:57 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
But...we do it anyway?

Very Victorian...to pretend. These topics/threads do slip in...so why not have a place for them? What would be the issues related to having this forum?


Edited by harlan (12/14/05 10:01 AM)

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#214642 - 12/14/05 10:13 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: harlan]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
One more place to moderate. And that place would be worse than any other forum.

Are you volunteering?

I agree with Ed and what has been said before, bullshido is for bad budo, not here. They come up, yes, but not frequently enough to require their own forum. And if that ever does happen, I might have to rethink my membership here. I'm not trying to expose others, just to learn and share thoughts, ideas.

Just my view on it.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#214643 - 12/14/05 10:30 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
It's not pretending. heres the difference: if I post stating my opinion that something is 'bad budo'...then it represents just that: a single opinion.

move that same post to a forum section called 'bad budo' and the debate is over...it's already catagorized as such. the people perhaps defending it have an uphill battle.

Imagine if Scotties visit to UK thread was determined to be filed in 'bad budo' as oppossed to debating the issue on neutral ground.

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#214644 - 12/14/05 10:46 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Well a thread derailed is different than a thread that starts out as 'hey...let's discuss this guy' or 'what do you think about this'?

So, Joel advocates leaving threads that skirt this topic within their forums, and that there will be some measure of internal control/crowd pressure within that subgroup of folks that will naturally moderate the thread. I can see this working with the Zen or Aikido area...but not elsewhere.

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#214645 - 12/14/05 11:11 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: harlan]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
McZen temple, I like that.

It's the moderators' jobs to moderate topics, not the members, hence the title. If a topic/thread is off-topic then it will be dealt with, either by locking/deletion or guidance of the thread. Different mods have different levels of what is acceptable, so there will be some variance in what is left open or locked.

What is so different about the zen and aikido forums that make them so capable of controlling themselves and the rest of us so incapable of doing so?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#214646 - 12/14/05 11:17 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Why do you fall into the illusion of Duality, Grasshoppa?

Back on track: I disagree that it is only the job of the moderators to moderate. Each of us affects the course of the threads we post in...some of us are deliberate in the way we post.

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#214647 - 12/14/05 11:23 AM Re: Bad Budo and McDojos [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Just warning of the possible problems due to mis-categorization which in itself could cause bad budo.

scenario: someone creates a thread "hey look at this mcdojo!".
- the thread is then refiled into the 'bad budo' corner.

- a debate over whether or not the place in question is the fine line of being money centric for greed or marketing conscience for survivability.

- good points are made, proof given of it not being a stereotype, and BTW a mod has a friend that goes there and likes it.

what happens to the thread now? will it be properly catergorized or forever (perhaps) unfairly labeled bad budo?

who would maintain such gray areas? the mods? what if they themselves are biased in particular cases...

...just entering in some characteristicly pain-in-the-arse thoughts on the topic.

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