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#214410 - 12/13/05 01:38 PM Hand Protection?
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
When practicing with "traditional" weapons do members use HAND protection of some type?

Or if your particular art instructs children (yes I know a generic no-no) in basic weapons practice, do they use hand protection of some type?

Solo practice, there is no functional need, but in application, or partner practice <shrug> I could be convinced of a valid potential need... pretty quickly.

Thoughts?
J

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#214411 - 12/13/05 01:45 PM Re: Hand Protection? [Re: Ronin1966]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
No. But I'm a newbie, and so 'I depend entirely on the kindness of others.'

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#214412 - 12/13/05 02:46 PM Re: Hand Protection? [Re: Ronin1966]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
No. This is my philosophy with it, basically what Harlan says. "Kindness of others" except... Well, not kindness but skill.

If you're doing Pairs practice Bunkai, then you should be moving slowly at first, and into more speed only when you are ready. Its for me, a practice of skill/timing and control. If you are doing Bo/Bo, then if your hands are far enough apart you shouldn't have a problem.

With the Sai's, if you're not improperly curling your pointer finger up. You'll be fine. Kama... well, Kama is a hard one to do against most things. Unless they're dulled, in which cause it takes a lot more control on the Kama side than any of the other weapons due to the position of the striking surface. Nunchaku are pretty easy to protect yourself and keep others safe.... Tonfa the same. Since all the blocks with the Tonfa are mainly against the forearm, (or braced by the other Tonfa/forearm, or are spinning catches, etc. Rarely is your hand in the direction of the attack)

Eku, well, truthfully I've never really seen much done in partners with the Eku. I've only seen one, and it was Sai-Sai/Eku...

Those are just my thoughts, i've never seen any actual Kumite with weapons that weren't foam based/pvc/boffer (for obvious safety reasons)
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#214413 - 12/13/05 03:48 PM Re: Hand Protection? [Re: Ronin1966]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
We never use hand protection. But we are in training to learn. And when you try to learn, you don't want to hurt eachother. That's only in SD situations. Never in practice.
_________________________
Ives

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#214414 - 12/14/05 01:22 AM Re: Hand Protection? [Re: Ronin1966]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
No

Skill then Speed

Sometimes it's good to get your knuckles/fingers rapped - you appreciate your weapon all the more.

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#214415 - 12/14/05 06:43 AM Re: Hand Protection? [Re: hedkikr]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Totally agree. Not only knuckles, also the ankles tend to help on that!

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#214416 - 12/14/05 09:46 AM Re: Hand Protection? [Re: hedkikr]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

No

Skill then Speed

Sometimes it's good to get your knuckles/fingers rapped - you appreciate your weapon all the more.





Exactly.
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#214417 - 12/14/05 01:01 PM Re: Hand Protection?-hockey gloves for FMA [Re: phoenixsflame]
DanielArola Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Fayeteville, NC
Here's a single stick sparring video I edited myself of myself in the light grey shirt versus US Army Capt. Marc E of Ft Bragg who is a "Dog Brothers MA training group" group leader for his soldiers. Marc of a Special Forces division has already been deployed once and redeployed a second time (and now back since 7/05) overseas to participate in the current war going on in Iraq.

http://media.putfile.com/DAMAG-INC11-07-05livesticksparringbreakdown-Dan-v-Marc

Edited in full and slow motion speeds.

You will see why hand protection is important when a person wants to take their training to reality-based levels.


Daniel Arola

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#214418 - 12/14/05 05:07 PM Re: Hand Protection?-hockey gloves for FMA [Re: DanielArola]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:


You will see why hand protection is important when a person wants to take their training to reality-based levels.




I wouldn't neccisarily call that a reality-based level of practical self defense. I do not think it would be an exchange of blows, but a blow to open up and allow for a disabiling strike and/or lock. This is more along the lines of something Kendo-esque with the Arni/Escrima... Then a simple fencing mask and gloves aren't what should be used. If you want to practice in a true manner with any weapon, body protection is needed. If you do not have it, there is no point.

I have never practiced Stick Fighting or had instruction on it. However, the video looked sloppy to me. The techniques were not done with any amount of control, and often the people doing them had their heads dipped to one side or the other,or down and were not watching with the fullness of their awareness where their attacks were going.

I've done Kendo, I've done light armor Western Ratan Sword Fighting, I've practiced (not as much as I'd like) with other weapons as well. If we're talking reality based, the Arni/Escrima/Jo has an application not even demonstrated in the video. Which are locks, throws and jabs. The most common manuever I saw on the video was a figure eight left to right, or a modified figure eight high and low.

The "hand protection" we were discussing, has nothing to do with the Light Contact Sparring the video contained, instead it was aimed more towards the Bunkai training of Kobudo, or other weapons. Not full sparring, as far as I understood the question.

I've never seen full contact sparring in Traditional Martial Arts, as I have mentioned before, unless the weapons themselves were Foam. I think padding the weapon, yet giving them realistic heft is a much better option. If you train with your visability limited or the manuverability of your hand restrained (I know with the Sai, the Tonfa and the Kama, finger movement, hand movement is Key and one that the Hockey Gloves would not allow for.)

These are simply my thoughts on the matter...
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#214419 - 12/14/05 11:49 PM Re: Hand Protection?-hockey gloves for FMA [Re: DanielArola]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
1st, I'm not anything close to an expert but...

Hockey gloves were always too restricting so I never used anything. I suffered but the initial pain became nothing after a while. That said, I also admit I never trained full contact because I hadn't arrived @ that level.

Full contact w/ sloppy technique is of no value that I can see - both parties only injure each other. It should only be offered as a training method to those w/ many years under their belts.

Check out the Dog Bros. website & they have the best alternative to the hockey glove. Designed by Guro Edgar Sulite, it's worth trying.

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