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#214000 - 12/17/05 11:41 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
I teach in 2 different suburbs through adult education. Only one night a week each. If someone only gets taught one night a week, I'm not going to burn up half the class with pushups or jumping jacks. Better they get something to think about and work on for the next 6 days 'cause it's new and cool. If I had a permanent dojo it would be different, partialy because I can't come up with new stuff forever!

#214001 - 01/18/06 04:26 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: Ironfoot]
Joss Offline

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
I don't care for making calisthenics a part of class. We do individual stretching PRIOR to class, start light and ramp up the activity as class progresses. Line drills, kumite, mat work, whatever. My experience is that MA mostly boils down to constant repetition of important movements. The goal is that the movements become purely reflex. There are PLENTY of effective and challenging movements to keep anyone fit.

I don't mean this to sound offensive but it will anyway. Maybe it is fine for tournament based sport dojos. But I have no competition ambitions. Speaking only of of non-tournament self-defense dojos, it has seemed to me that the greater the emphasis on unrelated conditioning excercises (pushup, crunches, etc) the greater the void in that dojo of material to learn or ability to convey it. Class time never seems to be enough when properly employed.

My guess is that the emphasis on calisthenics is a legacy of the post war GI's that brought karate to the west. Returning here and starting schools with what were most probably green belt levels of knowledge, they filled out the class time with whatever they had. I'd figure maybe 50% MA and 50% PT and that's been handed down.

#214002 - 01/18/06 04:47 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: Ironfoot]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Agee with you there, usually people stand around for 5-10 minute before class doing nothing anyway. The smart ones are out on the floor warming up. Five minutes of warm up is all we do the rest of the class is about MA.
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

#214003 - 01/19/06 07:25 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
Borrek Offline

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI

How much excercise do you do in class? Do you think it should be a part of the routine or do you think the time could be used in another way?

we always do things like crunches, udetate seiken, and suware geri during the first third of class. they are interspersed with with all of our other drills so its not like we have a full portion dedicated to working out. Our drill portion is usually 20 minutes or so

In my opinion its necessary because the whole point of drilling is to get your blood flowing and muscles loosened up for kata. also when a person is truly exerting themselves, I feel their body is more open to "suggestion" the brain turns off for a bit when you're tired and your foot goes exactly where your sensei places it. think of it as the lump of clay phenomenon.

plus there is a bit of discipline to learn in pushing yourself to the limits during exercises like knuckle pushups

#214004 - 01/22/06 10:26 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303

We do alot of non basic excercises in class,pushups,crunches,etc. We do alot in class and throughout class,no place specific. Some people feel that working out is for outside of class and class should focus more on technique,etc..
I think it's a crucial part of a good karate class. If we did a class without pushups I would feel like something is missing.
How much excercise do you do in class? Do you think it should be a part of the routine or do you think the time could be used in another way?

We do about 30 mins warmup and stretching before training in our 2 hour class. I vary from what i want to do daily because I want to keep the class guessing on what I do. This means they will not get bored or think its too easy. Also, stressing to body out will make the mind tougher IMO. Alot of teachers tell people that the big muscles or athletic bodys are not needed for MA but I beg to differ. It is funny to see how winded these people get without their proper training. Anything that make the body stronger will give you an advantage over an untrained person always.
Be "Water" my friend!

#214005 - 01/23/06 12:06 AM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: Eveal]
jc4199 Offline

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 362
Loc: Pevely, MO U.S.A
We have class and do drills and get instruction. Some time it a fast tempo drill some times not. After class we do a 45 min cardio class most people do not stay for it. After that some night grappling. Not saying it&#8217;s the right way just the way we do it.
Defeat never comes to any man until he admits it.

#214006 - 01/25/06 06:57 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: jc4199]
Blaise Offline

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 38
It depends on the night for me. Some nights are conditioning nights. It generally goes

Tuesday Night: kata...we rarely do conditioning on that night

Thursday: Sparring/self defense...sometimes this night is used just for conditioning

Friday: Black belt class/weapons...We learn the higher up katas here and practice techniques we don't do where we're mixed in with beginners, we also so fighting and sometimes weapons since weapons is incorporated into the program pretty much...we do a lot of conditioning on this night, too.

Saturday: Weapons class. No conditioning unless you count the warmups in the beginning, it's all weapon training.

I think it's good to have conditioning in class, but you also have to put in good time out of class to be in good enough shape to do what you're asked to do.

#214007 - 01/26/06 11:12 PM What Consitutes a Workout? [Re: Blaise]
Stampede Offline
Lord of the Kazoo

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 967
Loc: El Dorado, AR
I'm not a big fan of "exercise" per sey being a key part of class. However, that should not be seen in the same light as a warmup.

An excellent warmup would include mostly dynamic (not ballistic) Range of Motion drills and other exercises which tend to "grease the neuromuscular groove" (with apologies to Pavel & Comrades) within which we will be moving - to be read as technique. Get the body ready for what it's going to be doing by doing something which actually resembles the action, albiet with an increasing gradient of difficulty.

Not to knock "conditioning" as relates to pushups, situps, et al . . . Waitaminute. Yes it is. The "exercises" often prescribed in martial arts classes are often of the grade-school P.E. variety - buncha pushups (knuckles in rusty nails and sand), buncha situps, maybe a few poorly executed bodyweight squats. The repetitions, they come like strikes in a straight blast - in bunches. Almost never is there a planned progression for improvement. Add more rusty nails and sand, do more reps.

I would sooner see instructors stick to what they know. If they aren't the best at imparting exercise form and the planning of non-technique training programs as a whole, either suggest the student find someone who knows the business, or bring that someone in anyway.

[steps off whiny soapbox]

Now, if you'll excuse me, there's a Regressive Party meeting at the commissary, and I would so hate to be late.

Edited by Stampede (01/26/06 11:13 PM)
Formerly Vash

#214008 - 01/27/06 03:47 PM Re: What Consitutes a Workout? [Re: Stampede]
funstick5000 Offline

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
a good warm-up and stretching specifically are very important to a class. i agree that cardiovascular stuff can be built up in drills rather than exercises but stretching is far too important to leave behind.

stretches should cover all the main muscle groups in the legs and arms/shoulders. i also think its beneficial when doing stretches sitting down to create the foot shapes that you use in kicks to stretch the muscles that control them, to allow easier foot formation and better kicking.
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

#214009 - 01/27/06 03:52 PM Re: What Consitutes a Workout? [Re: Stampede]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Stampede -


An excellent warmup would include mostly dynamic (not ballistic) Range of Motion drills and other exercises which tend to "grease the neuromuscular groove" (with apologies to Pavel & Comrades) within which we will be moving - to be read as technique. Get the body ready for what it's going to be doing by doing something which actually resembles the action, albiet with an increasing gradient of difficulty.

I am not sure I have an idea of what you are talking about. How about a few examples for clarity?
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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