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#213980 - 12/12/05 05:11 AM Workouts in class?
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
We do alot of non basic excercises in class,pushups,crunches,etc. We do alot in class and throughout class,no place specific. Some people feel that working out is for outside of class and class should focus more on technique,etc..
I think it's a crucial part of a good karate class. If we did a class without pushups I would feel like something is missing.
How much excercise do you do in class? Do you think it should be a part of the routine or do you think the time could be used in another way?
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#213981 - 12/12/05 06:30 AM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
A good warmup was always part of class. Even when the instructors were saying that "advanced" students should do their warmups before class starts, we still did warmup exercises, including pushups, crunches, and running. Exercise does need to be part of class, including some strength training.

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#213982 - 12/12/05 07:03 AM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Personally, I agree.

A good warm up, some strength work, some endurance work and some stretch work are all important. (proberly 3/4 hour in all, 15 mins at the front end, 30 mins hard work to finish off with after the skills work, I like 2 hour total sessions)


However it would seem that a growing number of dojo do not agree with this.

These dojo say that its more important to teach and develop skills, I agree thats important but most (inc me!) students only have a small capacity to learn new skills, most of what is taught in a session is likely to not be taken in in reality, mental overload happens.

I also see the trend of instructors explaining, talking on and on about minute technical detail, more like ego coming out to me.

When I teach I like to train along side and with a small group, more hands on. Obviously I understand this perhaps wouldnt work with large groups or perhaps kids classes etc etc.

I also understand that my view is most certainly not right or wrong, its just my expierience.
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#213983 - 12/12/05 07:27 AM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
got to have exercises sprinkled in during the class. Anyone can practice when they are fresh...how well can we train while tired is the question being answered in nearly each class.
During a fight, we expend 10x (just picked a number that sounds good) the amount of energy as in training. so 12sec of fighting might feel like 2min of hard sparring in class. for a SD, life or death situation, this number might shoot up to 100x. (12sec = 20min)

emotion and fear expend an enormous amount of energy...training while tired or exhasted might give the extra 1 sec of strength needed just when we need it.

beginners might only get exercise from class, advanced should suppliment by exercising on their own as well.

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#213984 - 12/12/05 08:34 AM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: Ed_Morris]
AshiharaStudent Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Quote:



beginners might only get exercise from class, advanced should suppliment by exercising on their own as well.




Totally agree with this, and I think I would feel cheated if I didn't feel knackered after a class.
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#213985 - 12/12/05 09:11 AM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA

Brian S

Coupla ways to look at it.

1-Class time should be spent on workingon the stuff that you NEED a teacher for--everything else, conditioning, strength training, etc should be done on your own time.

2-How many folks are really going to do all the conditioning and strength work on their own?
Very few--so you have to train it in class.

I kinda take the middle view--there should be a proper warm-up and cool down.
But you should be running and lifting on your own--outside of class.
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#213986 - 12/12/05 12:06 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: BrianS]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
I agree with BrainS statement on push ups a class wouldn't feel right without them. I like to add a lot of conditioning when I teach class I feel that a conditioned martial artist is a better martial artist. I have had some students tell me I am too difficult on them but that isn't true, because you don't gain anything if you don't work for it.

Examples of workouts:
Push ups, Burpees, bodyweight squats, ploymetric, and various core exercises. Every week I like to end class with 5 minutes of hard conditioning work and it is very intense.

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#213987 - 12/12/05 12:18 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: bo-ken]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
A bit of exercise in class is one thing. Such as the initial warm up, stretching and then Kata and what not... If you're doing your Kata properly, you'll be getting one helluva work out.

Then sprinkle some lightly, but I think that there should be more focus on techniques taught and Bunkai Practiced in class. Thats kind of the point of having a teacher.

One of the things one of my old school did. Was when we paid for our tuition, we also (included in it) paid for a membership at the Gym that was close. We'd meet at the Gym every once in a while (For the die hards, twice a week, for the lighter practitioners once a week or never. )

My sensei then guaged (based on class performance) what needed to be worked on, endurance, actual muscle, speed, etc. Then we all went to our seperate work outs and did our thing and came back to each other to talk, give encouragement, etc.

After the work out, we did some cool down and stretching exercises (Usually to lengthen the muscle and increase flexibility, dynamic stretching is what I think its called)


I thought this was a great idea, it drove up the cost of the Dojo by about 10 bucks, but because it was a "Group Rate" Over 10 people was the same rate, 12 - 40 ... So, in the end it wasn't that much more for being able to go work out whenever you needed...

I think more schools should do this, encourage the physical training outside of the dojo as well as inside.
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#213988 - 12/12/05 12:33 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: bo-ken]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree with conditioning being a part of class cirriculum but how much time should be spent on just exercise? I believe that part of this along with repetitions of techniques must be done outside of class as a matter of fact when its done at home 3-4 times a day along with 2-3 days a week in class. You see more improvement in techniques and stamina, people that look at MA training like a night at the spa (done only that night), don't develope as fast as the more serious.

At a certain level if they don't improve physically, mentally and they won't be able to keep up. I think some times the class should check their williness to train hard. Not just exercise but drilling fast moving combinations that make them think like kiso/bunkias kumite or sparring drills controlled but serious reps.

What makes us different then the couch potato that jumps up and does a back fist, is that we have done it 10k times with meaning and purpose. Just like the difference in a NBA players jump shot, and that couch potato's.
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#213989 - 12/12/05 04:19 PM Re: Workouts in class? [Re: Neko456]
PierrePressure Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 173
In my class, typically you exercise while waiting for your turn. For example, if you have like 5 or 6 people in one line, and it's not your turn to do the technique, you'll do like 5 push-ups, stand up, and stay "light on your feet" (basically just keep your feet moving). So we're still working out, but rarely do we have an "exercise" portion of the class, because if we have spent all of our time learning, they're not going to make us stay late to exercise. When that happens, they'll tell us to go home and do some exercising ourselves on our own time. But, if there is still time, we will do crunches and such.

Not to change the subject (but only to add), how much exercising do you guys do on tests? Of course, it's not realy "exercising" then, it's more like testing your endurance. I'd say we do an equal amount of push-ups, sit-ups, crunches, etc., as we do techniques. Do y'all do any "endurance" stuff on tests (those of you who have tests)? Again, I'm not trying to derail, but only to add .
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