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#211323 - 12/05/05 10:46 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
From what I've seen moving meditation is something akin to a zen monk meditating while walking in a circle with other monks. [I don't practice zen, or have any interest in doing so, so I can't say how accuate that is, just what I've read.]

A long time ago somebody tried to link tai chi as a form of moving meditation. Bulldookey. I've practice Yang for 27 years and never for one instant ever considered it moving meditation. Sure it may be practice in ultra slow motion (as opposed to when I practice it fast), but it's impossible to do it correctly and meditate. You have to be considerbly focused on each movement to even begin to do it right. It's the intense concentration to move so slow that even begins to make its potential begin to flower. Never has my instructor suggested that meditation had anything to do with it, and he literally can take my practice apart with hundereds of corrections that must be made and remembered, anytime.

What happened was some observer who wasn't trained, saw slow motion and assumed that it was akin to some obscure zen practice [all zen practice is obscure, intentionally so, for if you were zen you wouldn't be talking about it].

Then we come to the thought kata could be practiced as moving meditation. Perhaps it could, it just wouldn't be karate in any form.

The purpose of kata isn't to build up an automatic response to use technique (which ia a stellar way to get yourself killed0. It must be alive in one's mind and practiced, to even realize a millionth's of its application potential.

You can't defend yourself automatically. Training will increase reaction speed, but intent must be present to recoginze the attack, and choose to exploit its openings for counter expediously.

That an outside observer sees the extreme efficency, of an advanced practitioner, and in turn describes it as a form of meditation, is very far from the truth.

Kata in all its variations, must be an awareness building tool as much as a physical recaction building tool.

As far away from moving meditation as possible.
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#211324 - 12/06/05 05:54 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Victor Smith]
eyrie Offline
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Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
A lot of aikido markets itself as "moving meditation", which in my view is as far from the suggested devotional contemplative practice as it is about the conscious attentive intention meaning of "meditate".

Semantics...

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#211325 - 12/06/05 12:26 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
Victor, you do not understand what I am saying at all. What I said had nothing to do with Zen. Only a heightened sense of concentration while practicing forms. I am saying practice with the intent on making yourself and your techniques better. And that if you practice the forms correctly you will get better and your mind will be cleared of all thoughts, other than making your techniques and forms better. And for a short time you reach a state of total awareness to your body, your forms, your techniques, and your mind without other distractions.
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#211326 - 12/06/05 12:30 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
That is not to say be dead to your surroundings and ignore everyhting, only concentrate on your form and your techniques. Think about them, but also be aware to what is around you. Perhaps you do not understand what I ment by moving meditation.
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"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

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#211327 - 12/06/05 12:35 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
It isn't what one does, but how one does it. Physical activity can be 'moving' meditation...it depends on the practicioner. "Meditation" also is different depending on the person and the tradition.

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Meditation forum?


Edited by harlan (12/06/05 12:36 PM)

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#211328 - 12/06/05 12:36 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
Defending yourself is a consious effort, but reaction to attack must be trained.
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"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

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#211329 - 12/06/05 01:55 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

And for a short time you reach a state of total awareness to your body, your forms, your techniques, and your mind without other distractions.



...sounds like 'being in the moment'.
...sounds like Zen.

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#211330 - 12/07/05 01:24 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

On the one hand, he's saying not being mindless, and in the next breath, he's mindless under certain circumstances




You even have to be mindful of your mindlessness.
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I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#211331 - 12/08/05 11:37 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
nice, well said very confusing . I ment to look deeper into what your doing when practicing your forms. Thats really all, perhaps it is zen like in that you are mindful of the moment.
_________________________
"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

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#211332 - 12/08/05 12:29 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
"Ken Zen no Ichi" Karate and Zen as One.

Moving meditation is not just monks walking slowly in a circle. The goal is to realize that meditation does not stop, ever. It is not necessary to be moving slowly, or to not have "intent".
Meditation is the practice of Being Here, Now. The goal of Zen is to learn how to be Present all the time. Not just when it's quiet, not just when you are in a serene environment. Meditation requires that you not cling to any thought or desire. You practice to achieve a state of Being where you observe All, unhindered by any mental bias. In martial arts, this is seeing techniques as they arise and responding without derived thought.

Taichi chuan definately is a form of moving meditation, though it is also an effective martial art. Not because it is often practiced slowly, but because it's principles and those of Taoism are the same, it is based on the teachings of the Tao Te Ching. It is very easy to see how taichi chuan develops the ability to naturally respond without thinking.

Shaolin was the home of Zen. It is not a coincidence that Bodhidharma is both the first patriarch of Zen, and considered the founder of Shaolin martial arts.

Of course, Any activity can be meditation. Any martial arts practice can be spiritual if the practicioner practices Zen, they need not have originated in Shaolin.

Sitting is Zen, Standing is Zen, Walking is Zen, Fighting is Zen. The practicioner knows there is nowhere to go, and no one to fight. There is nothing you can't accomplish if you put your mind at rest.

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