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#211313 - 12/04/05 09:50 PM Moving meditation
Mike_L Offline
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Forms can be a moving meditation if practiced in the correct way. If you truly practice the forms without thinking about anything except the movements and Strengthening your techniques while using breath control then they become moving meditation. It does not matter what style of Martial arts you practice or which form you practice, but if you practice all of the forms you know at a moderate speed while using the best technique and breath control you Possibly can while concentrating you can obtain a state of meditation. While you increase you techniques,forms,coordination,power,speed, and acuracy and develope a sense of your own abilitys. Forms eventually become reflex and you don't even have to think about you next move when you are doing them. It is also a great way to get in shape and discipline yourself.

I believe forms/kata/patterns are a very important part of traditional martial arts and can take you to another level. Think about this the next time your doing forms in class or at home and try it out for your self.!
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#211314 - 12/04/05 10:05 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Walking when done with 'conscious intention' can also be a 'moving meditative exercise'
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#211315 - 12/04/05 10:13 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Mike_L Offline
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I agree, I just wanted to relate it to martial arts. So your skills can be worked on while you meditate. I agree there are many ways of meditataion and no wrong way, but I like this way a lot and I believe others will to if they try it.
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#211316 - 12/05/05 08:23 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
trevek Offline
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Indeed, there are Japanese (and probably others) priests who walk into Buddhahood. They cover thousands of miles. If they don't do a required amount they have to commit suicide, apparently.
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#211317 - 12/05/05 09:18 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

Forms eventually become reflex and you don't even have to think about you next move when you are doing them




"Conscious intention" in walking meditation is the opposite of the above quote.

Everyday walking to us have become 'unconscious'; you never think about your body walking when you walk, do you?

Well, 'conscious intention' means therefore to be fully / completely aware of all the internal / external functions of the whole body doing the walking. Your ordinarily complacent mind will, after a while, 'connects' itself to the internal activities body, and this "enlightened" awareness will loop back to the mind, stimulating it and thus cultivating "mindfulness"
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#211318 - 12/05/05 11:23 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
phoenixsflame Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Forms eventually become reflex and you don't even have to think about you next move when you are doing them




"Conscious intention" in walking meditation is the opposite of the above quote.

Everyday walking to us have become 'unconscious'; you never think about your body walking when you walk, do you?

Well, 'conscious intention' means therefore to be fully / completely aware of all the internal / external functions of the whole body doing the walking. Your ordinarily complacent mind will, after a while, 'connects' itself to the internal activities body, and this "enlightened" awareness will loop back to the mind, stimulating it and thus cultivating "mindfulness"





I like the Zen Practice of Mindfulness in every movement. I do not like things becoming mindless, just being done and practiced. If I react in a self defense manner, or a sparring manner, then yes. Its normally mindless. But, I think most of my "moving meditations" would be more attributed to the mindfulness, or "Concious Intention" as Butterfly Palm put it.

But, that is me. I think meditation is as personal as martial arts style. We each do it for different reasons... I agree whole heartedly with the fact that meditation can be in anything. I meditate when I wash the dishes and change my son. I meditate while I clean the cat box and while I drive to work.

I don't meditate while I go to the bathroom though, I am not very appreciative of my bodily functions... ;D
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#211319 - 12/05/05 05:29 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: phoenixsflame]
eyrie Offline
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Irrespective of the situation you're in, it should always be one of mindful intent, not mindlessness.

Whether it be sitting, standing, eating, walking, practising forms, or about to get your butt whipped, etc. etc.



Edited by eyrie (12/05/05 05:37 PM)

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#211320 - 12/05/05 06:05 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
Mike_L Offline
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I did not mean that you become mindless, I wanted to state that you could concentrate on meditation and make your technique better at the same time. And that you could focus on that rather than on remembering which move comes next, because you would already know, now you could make it better.

Perhaps I miss worded my thoughts.
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#211321 - 12/05/05 06:09 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
phoenixsflame Offline
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Quote:

I did not mean that you become mindless, I wanted to state that you could concentrate on meditation and make your technique better at the same time. And that you could focus on that rather than on remembering which move comes next, because you would already know, now you could make it better.

Perhaps I miss worded my thoughts.





I think we all had an understanding, I simply wanted to warn people away from simply doing things mindlessly. It is a dangerous practice to do things without thought behind them.
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#211322 - 12/05/05 07:10 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
eyrie Offline
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Mike, I was referring to phoenixflames' post:
Quote:


... I do not like things becoming mindless, just being done and practiced. If I react in a self defense manner, or a sparring manner, then yes. Its normally mindless.





On the one hand, he's saying not being mindless, and in the next breath, he's mindless under certain circumstances.

Hence my response.

I understood your post. ButterflyPalm's response is on the money.

Quote:


I wanted to state that you could concentrate on meditation and make your technique better at the same time. And that you could focus on that rather than on remembering which move comes next, because you would already know, now you could make it better.





Perhaps you meant for meditation as a way to look deeper into what you're doing as you're doing the form?

For the sake of evoking further discussion, perhaps you would like to elucidate upon the "how"?

What do you mean by "concentrate on meditation"? How does one become "better" by meditating on movement?

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#211323 - 12/05/05 10:46 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
Victor Smith Offline
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From what I've seen moving meditation is something akin to a zen monk meditating while walking in a circle with other monks. [I don't practice zen, or have any interest in doing so, so I can't say how accuate that is, just what I've read.]

A long time ago somebody tried to link tai chi as a form of moving meditation. Bulldookey. I've practice Yang for 27 years and never for one instant ever considered it moving meditation. Sure it may be practice in ultra slow motion (as opposed to when I practice it fast), but it's impossible to do it correctly and meditate. You have to be considerbly focused on each movement to even begin to do it right. It's the intense concentration to move so slow that even begins to make its potential begin to flower. Never has my instructor suggested that meditation had anything to do with it, and he literally can take my practice apart with hundereds of corrections that must be made and remembered, anytime.

What happened was some observer who wasn't trained, saw slow motion and assumed that it was akin to some obscure zen practice [all zen practice is obscure, intentionally so, for if you were zen you wouldn't be talking about it].

Then we come to the thought kata could be practiced as moving meditation. Perhaps it could, it just wouldn't be karate in any form.

The purpose of kata isn't to build up an automatic response to use technique (which ia a stellar way to get yourself killed0. It must be alive in one's mind and practiced, to even realize a millionth's of its application potential.

You can't defend yourself automatically. Training will increase reaction speed, but intent must be present to recoginze the attack, and choose to exploit its openings for counter expediously.

That an outside observer sees the extreme efficency, of an advanced practitioner, and in turn describes it as a form of meditation, is very far from the truth.

Kata in all its variations, must be an awareness building tool as much as a physical recaction building tool.

As far away from moving meditation as possible.
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#211324 - 12/06/05 05:54 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Victor Smith]
eyrie Offline
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A lot of aikido markets itself as "moving meditation", which in my view is as far from the suggested devotional contemplative practice as it is about the conscious attentive intention meaning of "meditate".

Semantics...

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#211325 - 12/06/05 12:26 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
Mike_L Offline
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Victor, you do not understand what I am saying at all. What I said had nothing to do with Zen. Only a heightened sense of concentration while practicing forms. I am saying practice with the intent on making yourself and your techniques better. And that if you practice the forms correctly you will get better and your mind will be cleared of all thoughts, other than making your techniques and forms better. And for a short time you reach a state of total awareness to your body, your forms, your techniques, and your mind without other distractions.
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#211326 - 12/06/05 12:30 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
Mike_L Offline
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That is not to say be dead to your surroundings and ignore everyhting, only concentrate on your form and your techniques. Think about them, but also be aware to what is around you. Perhaps you do not understand what I ment by moving meditation.
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#211327 - 12/06/05 12:35 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
harlan Offline
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It isn't what one does, but how one does it. Physical activity can be 'moving' meditation...it depends on the practicioner. "Meditation" also is different depending on the person and the tradition.

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Meditation forum?


Edited by harlan (12/06/05 12:36 PM)

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#211328 - 12/06/05 12:36 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
Mike_L Offline
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Defending yourself is a consious effort, but reaction to attack must be trained.
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#211329 - 12/06/05 01:55 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Quote:

And for a short time you reach a state of total awareness to your body, your forms, your techniques, and your mind without other distractions.



...sounds like 'being in the moment'.
...sounds like Zen.

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#211330 - 12/07/05 01:24 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

On the one hand, he's saying not being mindless, and in the next breath, he's mindless under certain circumstances




You even have to be mindful of your mindlessness.
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#211331 - 12/08/05 11:37 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Mike_L Offline
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nice, well said very confusing . I ment to look deeper into what your doing when practicing your forms. Thats really all, perhaps it is zen like in that you are mindful of the moment.
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#211332 - 12/08/05 12:29 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
WuXing Offline
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"Ken Zen no Ichi" Karate and Zen as One.

Moving meditation is not just monks walking slowly in a circle. The goal is to realize that meditation does not stop, ever. It is not necessary to be moving slowly, or to not have "intent".
Meditation is the practice of Being Here, Now. The goal of Zen is to learn how to be Present all the time. Not just when it's quiet, not just when you are in a serene environment. Meditation requires that you not cling to any thought or desire. You practice to achieve a state of Being where you observe All, unhindered by any mental bias. In martial arts, this is seeing techniques as they arise and responding without derived thought.

Taichi chuan definately is a form of moving meditation, though it is also an effective martial art. Not because it is often practiced slowly, but because it's principles and those of Taoism are the same, it is based on the teachings of the Tao Te Ching. It is very easy to see how taichi chuan develops the ability to naturally respond without thinking.

Shaolin was the home of Zen. It is not a coincidence that Bodhidharma is both the first patriarch of Zen, and considered the founder of Shaolin martial arts.

Of course, Any activity can be meditation. Any martial arts practice can be spiritual if the practicioner practices Zen, they need not have originated in Shaolin.

Sitting is Zen, Standing is Zen, Walking is Zen, Fighting is Zen. The practicioner knows there is nowhere to go, and no one to fight. There is nothing you can't accomplish if you put your mind at rest.

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#211333 - 12/08/05 12:38 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Once again, a clear, understandable explanation from WuXing.

Gassho.

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#211334 - 12/15/05 03:31 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
Mike_L Offline
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Maybe I should have just said that forms and katas were very good breath control. And kept my beliefs that forms are a good way to meditate to myself!!
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#211335 - 12/15/05 03:43 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
harlan Offline
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No...I just think that you originally posted in a forum that was a little less inclined to consider the idea. But it works here.

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#211336 - 12/15/05 11:26 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: Mike_L]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

Maybe I should have just said that forms and katas were very good breath control. And kept my beliefs that forms are a good way to meditate to myself!!




Why be so easily defeated?

You have unknowingly touched on something which is deeper than you know, but being at the moment only at a suface level of the art, you could not express it cogently enough and so being made to feel you were talking over your head.

"Moving Meditation" has been thrown around for a while now (mostly by Tai Chi Chuan practitioners) I have a cousin who is a doctor / consultant radiologist. He studied Tai Chi for a while and starting talking about MM. I said there is no need to talk about it; if you can do, you would not be talking about it because you will know very very few people will understand what it is you are talking about and so feel it is a waste of time.

So I said to him, you have no idea what exactly MM is right? and he said yes, but it is something Tai Chi can give you? I said Tai Chi as practiced in the parks and community halls where you just do the Forms, some push-hands, will not give you that, even if you keep at it for 20 years. It can give you good health yes; it can even slow down the aging process and give you a skin as smooth and supple as a baby, but it will not give you MM.

So what is MM?

This was my answer to him. On one level it is actually quite simple. Most people would associate meditaton as sitting crossed-legged, eyes closed and concentrate (at the beginner's stage on your breathing) But at the advanced level, meditation, whether sitted or standing (e.g. zhan zhuang) allows you to achieve conscious control of the circulation of the chi in your body. Then while 'holding' that meditative state and circulating your chi, do the Tai Chi or Hsing Yi or Bagua or any other slow forms; the actual form or sequence of the movements is not important at all; what is important is that you can consciously circulate your chi while doing the movements. It is the combination of the conscious circulation of the chi and bodily movements that gives you MM.

So you are now meditating and moving at the same time, albeit at a slow Tai Chi pace. The ultimate gaol is to be able to 'hold' that meditative state and do fast movements; something I am working towards at the moment.

In another Thread I said I was working on what I thought was a new internal system which has no technical forms, like Tai Chi or Hsing Yi (which are difficult to apply in actual combat) but utilising only the chi enhanced bodily movements (through the practice of MM) to counter any kind of attack, without using any specific combat technique. I later found out (to my disappointment) that Wang Siang Chai (the founder of Yi Chuan) got there first. It was his disappointment with the overly tight form-controlled system like Hsing Yi which got him to look for a better way and founded Yi Chuan, which do away completely with any concern for strict correctness of form (something which Tai Chi people or rather their instructors are obsessed with, thinking perhaps that the Form, if done absolutely correctly, is the vehicle that carries you along to chi development, whereas it is actually the chi, after it is being developed, which gives substance and meaning to your Form)

Though I've never met him, I knew exactly what he (Wang Siang Chai) was thinking and why he came up with Yi Chuan because anyone who goes down the same road will inevitably come to the same conclusion, as I did, albeit one step behind.
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#211337 - 12/16/05 12:21 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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So...what is the point of achieving this state of control?

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#211338 - 12/16/05 12:30 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
eyrie Offline
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Well said... well said.

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#211339 - 12/16/05 12:36 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
eyrie Offline
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The point is.... exactly what I'm trying to do in the aikido forum with the aikido is not technique thread....

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#211340 - 12/16/05 12:43 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
harlan Offline
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Sometimes, as much as I appreciate this forum, I wish there was a place for more...open...conversation on this topic.

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#211341 - 12/16/05 12:57 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
eyrie Offline
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I was being open... it's just easier (for me) to "point"

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#211342 - 12/16/05 01:01 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
harlan Offline
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And like my cats...sometimes I just focus on the finger.

This topic, depending on the participants, can range very far from MA...or MA is just one part of it. Discussing the full range of the topic is not possible in any one of the threads...and I suspect would be very misunderstood by most.

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#211343 - 12/16/05 01:21 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
eyrie Offline
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What was that something about the one beget the two, the two beget three, and the three beget 10,000??? MA is just one of the 10,000 things from the same one. Within each MA is a seed of the one.

Or something like that....

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#211344 - 12/16/05 02:10 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

So...what is the point of achieving this state of control?




The combat training side of the internal systems, Tai Chi, Hsing Yi, Bagua is to achieve what everyone in the internal arts talks about, namely, 'whole body power' for countering and striking.

So the 'state of control' as you put, is to get two things.

One, it is the internal system way to train for the iron shirt / golden bell; the conscious circulation of the chi in combination with specific muscle movements create the ability to 'tighten up' in isolation the torso area without obvious conscious effort and above all without any visible strain on your breathing (try to very strongly tighten up to take a punch and see the strain on your muscles, not just your torso area but the whole body, and the effect on your breathing?, like when you are defecating) In a combat situation you will be very stiff and virtually immobile.

This type of 'internal' training will also not give you any extra unwanted muscle bulk, which slows down your physical reaction and also reduces the essential ability to have a 'relaxed' posture in a combat situation.

Two, whole body power. The chi, once you can consciously circulate it, serves as a conscious 'link' to create an "internal" awareness between your "YI" (mind/intention) and the body's muscular-skeletal structure (MSS)(hence "Yi Chuan") The chi enhances this awareness of your MSS many fold so that you can translate the built-up of any out-put of power or strength from one part of your body to other parts very very efficiently -- WITHOUT having to expand too much muscular energy or movement because of the ability to consciously move the muscular and skeletal structure in one harmonious unit. That is why there are stories about oldmen being able to surprisingly fight much younger people. Something I, in my mid-fifties, am beginning to appreciate.

I am sure you have heard many internal MA people say the power starts from your foot or ankle and ends at your hand. How can you do that unless you are acutely aware of and can consciously manipulate "from the inside" your muscular-skeletal structure, and in a split second bring it from the foot to your hands? That's why its called whole body power -- all parts of the body made to function tightly as a single closed unit. The best example is the whip. The powerful movement starts from the holder's hand and you can see the power move along the length whip and ended up at the tip; and the loud cracking sound of the whip is actually made by the sonic boom created by the whip's tip moving at faster than the speed of sound.

The above can, I supposed, be understood intellectually; but unless you can do it, or at least starting to learn to do it to a certain level, it will not be easy to truly appreciate. Its like when you do a kata at white belt level and doing the same kata at third dan; its just not the same and anyone can see that. I am therefore still learning myself and have some way to go and have promised myself to "see" something on my 60th year.
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#211345 - 12/16/05 10:54 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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So, if I understand you correctly, the point of moving meditation is to simply integrate body/mind for the physical benefits?

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#211346 - 12/16/05 12:56 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
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Physical and Spiritual are not seperate, remember?

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#211347 - 12/16/05 12:56 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
nenipp Offline
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The way I see it is probably enough different from your explanation, burrerflypalm, to justify this little post (however; make no mistake about it, I am in no way trying to come across as your equal, I am still just a novice! Only want to share a slightly diferent view... different, but most likely the same, if one can only see it? )

In the beginning of doing the form (any form, preferrably slow, though) you are focusing on trying to make your body move in a certain way, without caring about breath. Your body will not really obey and on this level your mind and movement (body) are separate.
With time and practice your body will move exactly the way you want it to and eventually breathing will be syncronised with this movement.
After even more practice this movement will become automatic and your body (and breath) will "move with the mind" (this will be wholly understood by the few of you who've experianced it directly).
At this level you cannot separate body from mind, it's not like your willpower is moving the body in a perfect way (anymore; it may have been like that though), but mind and body move together, inseparable.
You are aware of every part of your body, no, you are aware WITH every part of your body, and movement of/by this awareness is what's taking place.

There truly is no duality, there is no distracting though, is this not moving meditation?


Edited by nenipp (12/16/05 12:57 PM)

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#211348 - 12/16/05 12:59 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Yes, WuXing, I know that. But, I was pointing out that BFPalm's explanation was grounded in the physical understanding, and the mundane.

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#211349 - 12/16/05 10:22 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

Yes, WuXing, I know that. But, I was pointing out that BFPalm's explanation was grounded in the physical understanding, and the mundane.




As this is a Forum for the martial arts, i.e. the 'martial' side of things, I've confined myself to this one out of many aspects of moving meditation; how you can, through conscious internalisation brought about by the conscious circulation of the chi, enhance greatly, with a little expenditure of physical effort, the efficiency of your, (as you put it), 'mundane' physical techniques. Even this part is difficult enough; those who have tried it will understand.

I do not wish to touch on the more esoteric aspects which have been claimed; I will only say that if the psychic component of the mind and physical body can be 'integrated' to such an extent that allows the latter to be a vehicle for an external expression of the former, then it may be arguable that one should keep an open mind on these esoteric aspects.

I am not qualified to talk about it untill I have experienced it, whatever it is.


Nenipp.

So long as you are not fully aware of the circulation of the chi in your body and make it an integral part of your physical movements when doing your forms, however much you feel or think you feel there is this complete integration, you are actually still at the external/physical level, albeit with a little heightened awareness due to physical familiarity of the forms over time.

You will truly realise the big difference only when it happens; no amount of talk will ever do.
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#211350 - 12/17/05 02:45 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
I do believe you when you say (as I understand it) there's (at least) one more level to this, let's call it an energetic level, although I myself have at best scratched it's surface.

I do feel qi when I practice qigong, but not in any way that would come close to "fully aware of the circulation of the chi in your body and make it an integral part of your physical movements"

Thank's for helping me keep my feet on the ground!

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#211351 - 12/17/05 06:35 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
LastGURU Offline
The one who knows
Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 148
Loc: Riga, Latvia
Quote:

What was that something about the one beget the two, the two beget three, and the three beget 10,000??? MA is just one of the 10,000 things from the same one. Within each MA is a seed of the one.

Or something like that....



If I remember correctly, the one is the Taiji, which broke up to Yin and Yang, so it is taiji you are searching for?
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#211352 - 12/18/05 05:37 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: nenipp]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Thank's for helping me keep my feet on the ground!




Nice to know you are at least 'grounded'

Tell me, if you don't mind, what happens when you breathe in a little forcefully through the nose and at the same time, with a little effort, consciously pull in your torso from both sides (not from the front) hold it for a moment, and then let the breath out through the nose and at the same time, with a little effort, consciously push your torso out to the sides (not towards the front)in time with the out-breath, and doing this for about 10-15 cycles?
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I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#211353 - 12/19/05 04:47 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
"Tell me, if you don't mind, what happens..."

No, I don't mind! However, I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly, but rather than asking you to elaborate I gave it a go (two really) first, so then you can get a good laugh and/or give any necessary further explanation.

On my first try nothing really happened, exept I had my hands (and mind) full with getting my body to comply with your instructions I felt warmth though.

You said nothing about posture or position of hands etc. so I figured it didn't matter that much.

Second time I tried I basically felt up- and downward expansion/extension while inhaling and ditto sideways while exhaling.

Tell me, if you don't mind, why would you ask a (seemingly?) strange question like that?

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#211354 - 12/19/05 04:56 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Hey...ButterflyPalm...do you ever PM?

I would like to ask you some questions regarding grounding, but as they are not specifically MA oriented...

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#211355 - 12/19/05 06:45 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Why would it not be MA oriented?

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#211356 - 12/19/05 08:43 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Why would it not be MA oriented?




Harlan.

Yes, it is MA oriented. The question can be asked openly, and if I cannot answer, perhaps others can and so you get a wider net of opinion.

Nenipp.

You said that you feel chi when you practice chi gung and so I thought, regardless of the type of chi gung you do, maybe that basic little exercise can help you a bit.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#211357 - 12/19/05 10:37 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
1. Do you have a practice that deals with spontaneous kriyas (they drive me crazy...I can't sleep at night).

2. I'm not sure...I call it 'overloads'. There are times, when strong personalities are online here or via emails that a great deal of 'pressure' is felt in the crown. Currently, I don't have access to anyone with Qi Gong training on how to deal with the energies.

Thanks for any advice.

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#211358 - 12/20/05 05:00 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

I understand that these kriyas are rooted in Yoga practices, of which I have little experience of (though I have done some kundalini and kaya kalpa meditation) and it would not really be a good idea to use chi kung methods to solve whatever problems you have, if these are 'problems' in the first place.

Unable to sleep at night due to energetic practices usually result from not perfroming 'cooling down' exersizes. Some are physical, like self-massages from head to toe. There are many methods, but the general principle is to push the chi out towards the limbs a few times and rubbing the tan tien area in a circular / counter motion, followed by some gentle self-slapping all over the body.

Some use mental colours, like pink to first 'wash' the mind and body from head to toe to 'cool' it down, followed by blue to balance up.

And do not laugh at the value of drinking lots of water. An 'overload' as you put, can be seen in modern terms as the body giving itself all sorts of hormones in response to stimuli brought on by energetic practices or some sudden intense mental / emotional activity when interacting with other members and lots of water helps to drain away quickly these unused hormones. Granted these are all suppositions and please take them as there are. But what is certain is that everyone has different sensitivity threshold.

If chi kung can do anything, you still need someone physically next to you to guide you.

Sorry, perhaps someone who lives near harlan can help or recommend someone?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#211359 - 12/20/05 08:44 AM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thanks for the reply. Actually, while I have an interest in all the MA practices (the common denominator aspect)...I think the best thing for myself is to find a very good teacher in the Tibetian traditions...as they address every aspect. There is a Kagyu monastary close by that I plan on checking out, but until then, I find that kobudo/bo practice does a lot to align and ground.

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#211360 - 12/20/05 02:21 PM Re: Moving meditation [Re: ButterflyPalm]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Quote:

Nenipp.

You said that you feel chi when you practice chi gung and so I thought, regardless of the type of chi gung you do, maybe that basic little exercise can help you a bit.




OK, thank's, I'll just stick with it for a while and see what happens, if anything.
Appreciated!

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