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#210888 - 12/03/05 02:24 PM Cutting Kicks
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I was told recently that there are several styles out there that do a form of the cutting kick that I was introduced to in the style of karate I practice. I would say that there are probably no really different techniques in various styles, just slight modifications to them.

I was wondering if others could provide info on this or similar techniques?

As a point of discussion, I'll give a description of the technique that we use, where and why:

Back Cutting Kick

The cutting kick that we use is not the same as the one that might be inferred by MT. The point is less to do damage and more to unbalance, using the natural weakness of the stance an attacker might be in. The back in this description is also used to describe where YOU as the user of the technique will hopefully be when doing it correctly with respect to the attacker.

Generally, one must understand that weakness in a stance falls in several directions, or planes, that are off-axis from the plane of attack. Stength and support for structural integrity to launch a technique would generally lie along the same axis as the attack, especially in the case of a linear attack.

For instance if an attacker is in an orthodox fighting stance, left leg forward and facing you, weakness would reside in 90 and 45 degree angles to the plane of his attack. Essentially to his sides and not in front or behind him.

If the attack was a right front kick, you could parry this with your lead left hand and do a cutting kick to the back of the attker's kicking foot just before, or just as it lands...sending the foot to the side to unbalance the attacker.

The key here is to remember that you are not stopping the attacker's momentum, but want it to continue so that you can capitalize on the time it takes for the attacker to recover his balance, while you have maintained yours.

The cutting kick would consist of kicking to the back of the attakers foot toward the achilles tendon and kicking upward and at a 45 degree angle to the direction the foot is pointing. The kick is a snapping one and will require the presence of your body weight in the kick..in this case with a twist of the hip and a slight leaning back as you parry the kick to lend energy into the leg doing the technique.

Once done correctly, the opponent would fall, but even done slightly incorrectly, the opponent's back is exposed and thus allows you time to counter.

Forward Cutting Kick
For a right reverse punch as an attack, a forward cutting kick would be appropriate if you can obtain proper timing. This still uses similar mechanics and references the weakness in your opponent's stance, but needs a different target area to unbalance the oppoent.

In this case, a right cross would be the technique and would necessitate having it parried, inward...not to the outside of the opponent's body. If this can be accomplished, you will find that the opponent has over committed to the punch via lack of impact and so has his torso presented over his lead left leg...which is stopping his hip torque present in the punch.

Now, if you can parry the punch...lean back slightly and and use your left leg to impact at the knee or just above it on the attacker's left leg, kicking at a 45 degree angle out to the side of his stance, you will free up the hip torque in that leg and will help his own momentum carry him over and unbalancing him.

I hope this stuff isn't too technical, but wanted to be specific.

Thanks for any help.

-B

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#210889 - 12/03/05 04:17 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: butterfly]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Good stuff, Brad!

I have breifly discussed buckles in AKK before, I think they are the closest analog to your cutting kicks.

They work on a similar principle, 45 degree unbalancing to the opponent's momentum, although they can also be used when the opponent is not dynamically moving.

If you envision the opponent (feet apart), standing in the middle of a clock along the 3-9 axis (he is facing 6), your buckle would travel along the 7-1 or 8-2 axis. This will force weight onto the opponent's opposite leg, and often forces the torso forward as well.

Buckles are typically done with the back of your leg, specifically the area behind your knee. You impact the side of the opponent's kneecap with your leg bent, so that their knee fits directly into the pocket behind your knee. By forcefully driving your leg back on a 45 degree axis AND straightening your leg, it will both knock his leg back and straighten (possibly breaking) his knee.

As this technique is done with your back mostly to the opponent, you are probably thinking "when in the heck would you want to do that?"

I have had greatest success with this when the opponent is attempting to circle around you. If you time the buckle to impact right as his foot hits the floor, it can be very effective.

I gotta take the wife to dinner, but I will try to discuss the "looping downward Roundhouse Kick" when I get back. Not exactly a cutting kick, either, but vaguely related.

Now everybody yell for Brad to do a post on stop kicks!!!!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#210890 - 12/03/05 04:24 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: butterfly]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Great post!
A friend has shown me exactly what you are talking about...it looked very effective.
The only philosophical difference which I'm familiar with is in the area targeted. The target tends to be the side of the knee (from inside or outside) using the instep. It's impractical to train this way of course unless you want students coming to class in walkers. The timing is as you describe it.

another that I have trained are sweeps. again, same basic timing and body positioning as you described, but the target area is either side of the foot using your sole/blade. since it is tageting an area further away from the center of gravity (just below the ankle), it takes less power to give the same effect....this is particularly important for in-close fighting where you have less distance that your foot can travel - generating less power. Also, less distance means less reaction time (for both fighters), so follow up has to be almost at the same time.

In sport application, I've seen sweeps/leg takedowns and feigns applied very effectively and are often key to scoring.

Fun stuff!

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#210891 - 12/03/05 04:26 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
ooo...I forgot about buckles! those are great. theres even more than a few in Goju kata. good one Matt.

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#210892 - 12/03/05 07:29 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: Ed_Morris]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
And Ed, you're right about sweeps. This would be a similar technique acting in the same area of utility.

The sweep, however, as you noted is generally set up for very close range and usually means that you are more or less perpendicular to, or parallel with, the attacker (from my experience). Basically in front of him or just to his side.

This makes the sweep a brilliant technique if you are straight on and catch the opponent's lead foot as he sets down with his body weight on it. However, at an angle to the attack from the opponent where you might have to cover 1-2 feet in distance, a cutting kick makes a nice addition to these knock down techniques.

For example, you slip a front kick...you are one foot away from the kicking foot as it plants behind you and two feet away from the back, supporting foot of the attacker at maybe 40-45 degrees to either foot. Just a little too far for a sweep, but a cutting kick now begs to be used to knock the opponent down.

It's all good.

-B

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#210893 - 12/03/05 07:29 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: butterfly]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Butterfly -

Quote:

If the attack was a right front kick, you could parry this with your lead left hand and do a cutting kick to the back of the attker's kicking foot just before, or just as it lands...sending the foot to the side to unbalance the attacker.




And that sounds fairly nice and polite. But that carrying action can make the attacker's foot roll onto it's side as he lands. Remember that his whole body weight is now coming down on that same 45 degree axis.....*SNAP* goes the ankle.

High grip soled shoes or uneven terrain can make that a very painful, debilitating landing for the opponent.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#210894 - 12/03/05 08:27 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: MattJ]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Matt,

You're right...but why was the guy kicking me? And yes, in practice one can roll the ankle. I have had it done to me...and have done it to others (mucho apologies).

The other point that should be brought up, BTW, outside of the technique itself, is the utility of the cutting kick, or a sweep, or a throw...whereby, a fast retreat is offered instead of forced contact and continued strikes while potentially others can come to the aid of the attacker...and not you.

Downing an opponent to get away and not continued fighting is valid.

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#210895 - 12/03/05 08:40 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: butterfly]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Just thought of another. radical as this technique sounds, I've seen it not only demonstrated, but used in full contact sparring with pretty dangerous looking effect.
Full body scissor sweep and leg scissor sweep - everyone is familiar with the leg scissor takedown and the risk involved in pulling it off (since it puts yoursef on the ground before your opponent.)
The full body scissor is a hop in the air, kicking one leg out from the outside while the other leg cresent kicks to the inside...with enough hip power you could turn someone of equal weight literally upside down landing them on their neck. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I haven't practiced it much, but I mention it as another fun one to add to the list.

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#210896 - 12/03/05 09:15 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: butterfly]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
When I was in Austria, I learned a type of sweep that could be considered a cross between a cutting kick & a traditional sweep. In fact, it was closer to the cutting kick than a sweep. The primary difference was that it was used on the attack as the opponent retreated.

The warning was that the "sweep" couldn't be too high on the leg (upper calf, knee or thigh) because that would constitute an illegal (competition) kick. The point of contact was behind the ankle/Achilles tendon area. It also had to utilize the instep & not any part of the shin.

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#210897 - 12/03/05 09:18 PM Re: Cutting Kicks [Re: hedkikr]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Quote:

The primary difference was that it was used on the attack as the opponent retreated.





Hedkikr,

Can you be more specific in how an opponent would retreat and what would be the set up for such a technique?

Thank you, intersting.

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