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#209343 - 11/29/05 11:46 AM How do you Meditate properly?
Aka_Ryu Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 35
How? Do you empty all your mind? What do you think about? Help!
_________________________
www.Ishinryu.com. No nonsense Ju Jitsu. SAS, Speed, Aggression and Surprise.

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#209344 - 11/29/05 12:16 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: Aka_Ryu]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

How? Do you empty all your mind? What do you think about? Help!




Not all meditation is emptying your mind. Nor are all empty minds meditating.
Could you clarify what you mean by meditation? Are you looking for the "No Mind" Meditation? The calming meditation? An introspective type?

Truthfully, if we're talking about a "No Mind" sort of meditation, its hard to transmit the kind of knowledge with words... Really, the approach I was taught wasn't a "not thinking" or "banishing thoughts" but, about not grasping them.

Thoughts will always arise, but we have the concious choice not to hold onto them.

"Flashes in the Darkness, illuminating everything then fading away into nothingness" to paraphrase a Zen Teacher.

Then there are meditations of energy effect. Such as the Fire meditations that some monks use to warm their bodies in the snow. Or the Earth meditations that some Qi-Gong/chinese martial artists use to root themselves... when we're talking meditation, we're talking a huge can of worms.
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While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#209345 - 11/29/05 12:21 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: Aka_Ryu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
If you stop breathing then you are doing it wrong.

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#209346 - 11/29/05 03:09 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: Ed_Morris]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
That's true for almost every activity, except freediving, isn't it?

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#209347 - 11/29/05 03:12 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: nenipp]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

That's true for almost every activity, except freediving, isn't it?




You are generalizing SO MUCH!! OMG! I Can't believe you!

You totally forgot DYING! Jeez...

The dead need your respect too you know...

(note : Sarcasm Imbedded.)
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#209348 - 11/29/05 09:49 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: Aka_Ryu]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Yeah, a big can of big worms.

This analogy is surprisingly and unexpectedly? appropriate. Good one, Phoenix.

All this talk about not thinking, empty mind is only for the experts. You are not there yet.

Try this. I am being serious here. Close your eyes and 'see' a can. Then open this can and imagine all these worms wriggling uncontrollably out of it. You are in a state of anxiety, panic even. What do you do? Use you mind to slowly and calmly get them one-by-one back into the can and close the lid.

What do you feel now? Calmer, relaxed, mentally and emotionally more focused?

Repeat this exercise a few times for a few days.

Come back in a week and we can go on to the second lesson. Perhaps by then you will know what the second lesson is without my help.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#209349 - 11/30/05 02:04 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: phoenixsflame]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Oh yes, I can see how the activity of dying could involve the stop breathing part without being labelled as wrongfully done.
In fact, one could almost go so far as to say that it isn't done 100% correctly, if it doesn't involve at least some degree of stop-breathing.
Therefore I stand corrected wouldn't surprise me if you were to come up with another breathless activity tomorrow, to really turn the knife in my wound... sob!



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#209350 - 11/30/05 02:10 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: nenipp]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

Oh yes, I can see how the activity of dying could involve the stop breathing part without being labelled as wrongfully done.
In fact, one could almost go so far as to say that it isn't done 100% correctly, if it doesn't involve at least some degree of stop-breathing.
Therefore I stand corrected wouldn't surprise me if you were to come up with another breathless activity tomorrow, to really turn the knife in my wound... sob!







Well, I think I'm at a loss, so don't worry about the knife turning

But, something interesting I wanted to point out about some Zen Schools of meditation. They put more emphasis on the exhalation of breath, than the inhalation. Not clearing out the lungs completely, but not rushing to fill them up again either. Its very interesting.
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#209351 - 11/30/05 02:27 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: phoenixsflame]
Prometej Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Croatia
How to introspect yourself (without using sharp objects )?
_________________________
Staying silent is the smartest thing to say

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#209352 - 11/30/05 04:27 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: Prometej]
Aka_Ryu Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 35
This is the type of meditation that i use. I Tend to calm my breathing down and mantain as less as possible amounts of thoughts in my mind. If there is something that I want to think about i tend to think about it e.g. Problems i tend to mediate about and attempt to solve mentally.
_________________________
www.Ishinryu.com. No nonsense Ju Jitsu. SAS, Speed, Aggression and Surprise.

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#209353 - 11/30/05 06:00 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: Aka_Ryu]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
That would not be correct meditation, according to the Ch'an/Zen school. In meditating, the goal is to end mentation by not clinging to thoughts that arise. If there is something you want to think about, you should recognize that there is a thought there, but then forget it. The solving of all problems comes ultimately not from using the rational mind to think about them, but through the recognition that there are really no problems.
Meditation should develop the ability to use the intuition, which is connected with the "universal mind". This occurs by simply being. Not trying to do anything, not trying to not do anything. It is listening and seeing and feeling, but not making any judgements about what is heard and seen and felt. The intuition leads one to the understanding that there is no self and no others, there is no seperation between any things at all. That is where the answers to all questions are.

Physically, a good way to start meditating is to simply focus on breathing. sit in a comfortable position. (or not so comfortable, like lotus posture, if you want to challenge yourself.) Breath in through the nose and out through the mouth, and take slow deep breaths, not shallow. Try not to close the eyes all the way, as that can bring on sleepiness, keep slightly open if not all the way open. Focus on a single point a few feet in front of you. Posture should be upright, back straight. arms relaxed, resting the hands on your lap. Place the left hand inside the right hand, and touch the thumbs together lightly.
Focus on the breath going in and out, through your body. Thoughts will come up, but just let them go past. If you find yourself thinking something to yourself, following a thought path, just come back. Whatever thoughts come up, let them go, just always bring yourself back to the breath. When you hear sounds, thoughts will arise. They just pass by, and are gone. Don't linger on anything, always come back to the center, to the breath.

There are many ways to meditate, but this is a simple way that is used in Zen. The essential thing to remember is not to cling to anything, just to Be. Always departing, always returning.

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#209354 - 12/01/05 06:17 AM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: phoenixsflame]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Quote:

But, something interesting I wanted to point out about some Zen Schools of meditation. They put more emphasis on the exhalation of breath, than the inhalation. Not clearing out the lungs completely, but not rushing to fill them up again either. Its very interesting.




One possible point to this is that it gives the focus on breathing a quality of "waiting", which is akin to the quality of the peaceful mind.

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#209355 - 12/01/05 12:18 PM Re: How do you Meditate properly? [Re: nenipp]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

Quote:

But, something interesting I wanted to point out about some Zen Schools of meditation. They put more emphasis on the exhalation of breath, than the inhalation. Not clearing out the lungs completely, but not rushing to fill them up again either. Its very interesting.




One possible point to this is that it gives the focus on breathing a quality of "waiting", which is akin to the quality of the peaceful mind.




I agree. I think when people rush to inhale they're missing the moment they are in. I also think it may defeat the relaxation process of it... Yet, if one holds their breath to long the tense up. Its a very delicate balance.
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