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#208617 - 11/27/05 03:38 PM fasting
gojuwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 82
Loc: New Jeresy,U.S.A
Has anyone fasted here successfully?And which type is better,juice or water.Would you also recommend training on a fast.Thank you,first time faster.
_________________________
Truth is relationship with the opponent,living,moving,never static.

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#208618 - 11/27/05 04:14 PM Re: fasting [Re: gojuwarrior]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
There are other threads on fasting knocking around, and I said on them what i say to you: Fasting is bad. Your body needs fuel to maintain proper function. Fasting does not detox the body. You may feel 'cleansed' psychologicaly, but physiologicaly doing without nutrients make the body produce more toxins than normal during the breakdown of body tissue to feed yourself.
See how far your car gets without fuel. The body is just an engine and obeys the same laws.
Years ago there was this cabbage soup/fruit juice detox diet doing the rounds, no one mentioned that this was devised for people of morbid obesity, under hospital supervision, to complete in an attempt to get their bodyweight to a state where it was safe for them to be operated on. Fasting is that extreme and potentialy damaging to the body.
Eat well, and not to excess. Too many people have no choice but to go hungry in this world, it is a sign of our decadence and privelidged position that we can entertain such a situation out of misguided choice.
A fool and his dinner are soon parted.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#208619 - 11/27/05 05:41 PM Re: fasting [Re: Cord]
gojuwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 82
Loc: New Jeresy,U.S.A
Ehhh,i must disagree cord.Fasting is the sure fire way of cleaning the body.The food we put in our body builds up toxins to a staggering degree.It has scientific backing in many degrees.At any givin time we are carring anywere between 3-15 pounds of waste that has to be cleaned out.
Sorry but i disagree,but you are still cool in my book .Read "Natural cures they dont want you to know about",and "the toxic cure".
_________________________
Truth is relationship with the opponent,living,moving,never static.

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#208620 - 11/28/05 12:38 AM Re: fasting [Re: gojuwarrior]
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

Fasting is the sure fire way of cleaning the body.




No, fasting is a sure-fire way of losing lean body mass.

Quote:


The food we put in our body builds up toxins to a staggering degree.It has scientific backing in many degrees.




Unless you are chewing on a radioactive piece of lead and drinking liquid mecrury, your body is not stockpiling anything toxic.

Yes, there have been concerns over levels of toxins in farmed salmon and the like, but even eating these in a limited amount is safe. And drinking cabbage juice isn't going to change these levels.

The humna body is increbidly efficent at self cleaning. Go read a physiology text on the hepatic and renal system.

And scientific backing? Let's see it.
Quote:

At any givin time we are carring anywere between 3-15 pounds of waste that has to be cleaned out.




You are kidding me, right? This is an old tree-hugger's wives tale. After a patient has been NPO for 24 hrs and has a colonoscopy, there's nothing to see but colon.

If you are carrying around 15lbs of "waste", maybe all a person needs to do is eat more fibre

Quote:


Read "Natural cures they dont want you to know about",and "the toxic cure".




And the author's of these books have what kind of medical credentials?
_________________________
"You do not truly know someone until you fight them." - Seraph, The Matrix Reloaded

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#208621 - 11/28/05 02:47 AM Re: fasting [Re: gojuwarrior]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
While not arguing about medical facts, purely cos I don't know any better, I fasted a couple of times for about three days. I was solely on water and herbal tea.

This was for both detox and a way of readjusting my dietary habits. In both cases it worked quite well, however I wouldn't recommend it for everyone and I certainly wouldn't use it as a means to losing weight (I tried that once too... ended up with dietary supplements of an antidepressant sort!).

I would only think about it if you are both physically and psychologically in reasonable shape.

IF you decide to try it try single days to three days max for the first couple of times. Don't get macho and feel you have to complete it if you start feeling unwell. Also, don't be stupid about it and try doing lots of weights etc (the body still needs nutrients and a drop in sugar levels aint nice) and be careful about driving/ operating machinery etc.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#208622 - 11/28/05 05:21 PM Re: fasting [Re: gojuwarrior]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I stand completely by my post, and no qualified nutritionist/dietician with any credibility that i know of would advocate the cessation of nutrient supply to the body. Absolute lunacy. During the time you are fasting, your body will breakdown muscle tissue to feed itself, and waste products will increase in the blood stream as a result of catabolism. This is true scientific fact. I can not put my case more clearly or accurately than this.
All are more than welcome to their opinion, Dr Kellog believed that a combination of cornflakes and colonic irrigation would benefit health and 'cure' people of sexual urges, I put fasting in this category of crazy I am afraid. YOU NEED FUEL TO LIVE. THE BODY'S FUEL IS FOOD. NO FOOD= BAD.
Have you ever thought of the pyschological ramifications of promoting positive aspects of fasting to all and sundry? When does 'cleansing' become anorexia? Positive enforcement of starvation has potential to sow dangerous seeds.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#208623 - 11/29/05 01:39 AM Re: fasting [Re: gojuwarrior]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Fast all you want, there is a reason people die of starvation. I guess this is going to have to be pounded into people’s heads over and over. Your body MUST have food. You MUST have a certain number of calories a day in order to maintain basic bodily functions like breathing and blood circulation. If your not eating, your not taking in calories, if your not taking in calories your body will start taking nutrients from your lean muscle and your body will start to shut down.

As for your books you suggest. I've never heard of "the toxic cure" but the other book you suggest is written by a man with NO background in nutrition what so ever. The writer, Kevin Trudeau, is not only a nutritionist but an ex-con with no education on the subject to speak of. He's an infomercial "guru" who is only looking to make a buck regardless of the cost. Follow his nutritional "advice" if you want but don't encourage others to put them selves in harms way with your misinformation.

It's one thing to discuss personal experiences here. It's another to promote unhealthy and potentially deadly habits. I suggest you use a little foresight before starting a topic such as this next time. We have no control over who views this forum but we do have some responsibility for the impression we give them. Feel free to link to any “scientific backing” from an academic source. The Kevin Trudeau book you mentioned is far from justification.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#208624 - 11/29/05 02:08 AM Re: fasting [Re: laf7773]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#208625 - 11/29/05 02:11 AM Re: fasting [Re: laf7773]
Alicia Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 222
Loc: BC, Canada
Have you found any peer-reviewed, Medical Journals or periodicals that encourage fasting?

Why exactly, have you decided to fast?
_________________________
"If someone asked me what a human being ought to devote the maximum of his life to, I would answer: training. Train more than you sleep."
~Mas Oyama~

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#208626 - 11/29/05 02:12 AM Re: fasting [Re: laf7773]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Forcing yourself to go without food is illogical. Your body will fight it and eventually win. There are some weird people out there with weird ideals. I saw a woman on 'wife swap' that stands outside naked staring at the sun to gain nutrients. She believed it is the cure for world hunger! Her family didn't cook anything and basically lived off of salad and birdseed. They all looked terribly unhealthy!
Food,it does a body good.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#208627 - 11/29/05 02:09 PM Re: fasting [Re: BrianS]
Mandolynn Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 195
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Quote:

Forcing yourself to go without food is illogical. Your body will fight it and eventually win. There are some weird people out there with weird ideals. I saw a woman on 'wife swap' that stands outside naked staring at the sun to gain nutrients. She believed it is the cure for world hunger! Her family didn't cook anything and basically lived off of salad and birdseed. They all looked terribly unhealthy!
Food,it does a body good.




You mean you've never heard of the mutant plant people who live off vitamin D????
_________________________
My bladed nunchucks are super sweet.

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#208628 - 11/29/05 02:16 PM Wife swap? [Re: Mandolynn]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Boy, I really have to read...less.

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#208629 - 11/29/05 03:50 PM Re: Wife swap? [Re: harlan]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Going through the Main Index and what do I see with Harlan's name beside it ... "Wife Swap". Why did I immediately click on this?

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#208630 - 11/30/05 12:02 AM Re: Wife swap? [Re: Dereck]
chickenchaser Offline
Member

Registered: 10/29/05
Posts: 204
Loc: Auburn,New York,U.S.A.
i "fast" every night while i sleep!!!! but i break it every morning
_________________________
"The early bird gets the worm, but the bird in a hurry only gets half of one." --- Sensei Corey

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#208631 - 11/30/05 12:14 AM Re: Wife swap? [Re: Dereck]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

Going through the Main Index and what do I see with Harlan's name beside it ... "Wife Swap". Why did I immediately click on this?




The same reason I did...

Hot MA on MA action.

Seriously though, I have to join the contingent with the whole "starving is bad for you, it does nothing good for your body" group... I'm not saying there aren't reasons people do it (All spiritual/religious) that are faith based and should be respected. I'm saying, as a way to help heal the body and clense it. Try tea. Tea has some great antioxidents, I love tea. Everyone loves tea. My son loves tea... He's two. He says Hi... Well he would if he wasn't sleeping. And he doesn't fast either. See?

Makes perfect sense.
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#208632 - 11/30/05 12:16 AM Re: Wife swap? [Re: phoenixsflame]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
{looks around, doesn't see harlan, leaves.}

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#208633 - 12/03/05 02:27 PM Re: Wife swap? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
I don't see how fasting is all that bad. I don't think there's a lot of research on it at all though, pro or con.

It's medically proven (As much as anything is scientifically proven) that the human body accumulates various particles of negative effect. In fact, it's recommended men over a certain age give blood regularly as a means of reducing the buildup of PCB's/heavy metals in the blood. So yeah, toxins definitally build up in the body. 15 lbs though? 15 lbs of what exactly? I think 15 lbs of most lasting blood bodily contaminates would kill you.

I don't know of any research that's proven fasting helps clean the body, I also don't know of any studies that disprove it. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt considering there really aren't any negatives that I can see.

Fasting without some kind of nuitrion certainly seems like a terrible idea. Who advocates this?

When I fast(Which is quite rare, every few years maybe) I usually survive on lemonade. 2 Tbs lemon joice and 2 Tbs maple syrup in 1 quart of water - Adequate nuitrition in easily digestable form. I avoid any any real excersize and pretty much just relax for a few days. I haven't noticed any negative side effects, any loss of muscle mass I haven't noticed.

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#208634 - 12/03/05 03:34 PM Re: Wife swap? [Re: Subedei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
On what planet does a spoon of maple syrup in water constitute 'adequate nutrition'?
i would strongly urge anyone considering the activity of fasting to read Laff's post, mine, and the others who raise the dangers of self starvation for 'health'.
If anyone can provide links to genuine medical research that proves starvation to be beneficial for normal healthy humans then please do so. Advocating fasting 'because you like it' yourself is irresponsible and dangerous. I feel my first thread lock coming on.....
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#208635 - 12/03/05 04:58 PM Re: Wife swap? [Re: Cord]
gojuwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 82
Loc: New Jeresy,U.S.A
Read the forum rules. This is NOT a place for religious discussion.


Edited by laf7773 (12/03/05 09:03 PM)
_________________________
Truth is relationship with the opponent,living,moving,never static.

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#208636 - 12/03/05 10:11 PM Re: fasting [Re: gojuwarrior]
White_Fox Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 57
Fasting can be very beneficial for your body to "clean house", A lot of people in western culture are very weary of fasting. But ancient cultures have been fasting for thousands of years.

What it all comes down to is "the proof is in the pudding". I have fasted and know many people who have fasted therefore I know from my personal experience that it works. Many friends of mine have done the master cleanse (lemonade diet) by Stanley Burroughs and one friend of mine said after the third day you are not even thinking about food and have soo much energy. The reason for the energy is your body has all of that energy that it uses to digest solid food free to use. But on a one day fast you may not feel this way.

I would recommend a juice fast the first time because it is much easier on your system. Plus the juice helps your body deal easier with the toxins being released from your organs etc.

Of course before you do your fast read a bunch of literature on it and plan out your "battle plan" Therefore you know what to expect.

One great benefit of fasting is time seems to slow down and a more humble attitude is cultivated since you are controlling your body's desires. And when you do eat again you are much more grateful for your food that comes in.

And when done your fast you will be very sensitive to your food coming in. Try to eat good food as opposed to lots of food and you will have more energy because you are giving your body more efficient fuel.

As for training try not to do too much strenuous activity on your first fast take this time to slow things down, do some stretches, go for walks in nature take this time to cleans and rejuvenate. Also don't engage in ual during fasting it will suck your vital energy out of you.

You can even go to a naturopathic doctor or holistic nutritionists and do the fast with them for safety and guidance.

Hope I helped a bit.

All the best
_________________________
Best MA Flash Ever! www.ninjai.com NINJAI RULES!

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#208637 - 12/04/05 12:52 AM Re: fasting [Re: White_Fox]
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'd have to liken fasting to static stretching prior to working out: It was done for thousands of years, millions of people thought it was good, but in the end, science has proved that it's actually harmful.

Unfortunately, the "it's been done that way for a long time, so it must be good" attitude still prevails, and science is ignored.

Anecdotal stories and denial are one thing, but science can't be argued.
_________________________
"You do not truly know someone until you fight them." - Seraph, The Matrix Reloaded

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#208638 - 12/04/05 07:18 AM Re: fasting [Re: White_Fox]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Fasting can be very beneficial for your body to "clean house", A lot of people in western culture are very weary of fasting. But ancient cultures have been fasting for thousands of years.




The proof is in the pudding? So you had bloodwork done before and after did you, to confirm the psychological 'boost' you experienced?
Many people follow ancient forms of expression to feel good in themselves- suspension from hooks, branding, even tattooing. The reasons are varied, but it is all done to create the positivity of which you speak. None of it is good for you physicaly however, and neither is fasting. I offered a chance for some real scientific evidence in its defence, and all we got was more 'it made me feel good'. That is not proof of its safety or health enhancement. Time to stop the carousel.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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