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#208568 - 11/27/05 02:07 PM Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola
rideonlythelabel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
I was rereading through an old magazine today and I found an interesting Andy Warhol quote. I don't think it was meant to be related to anything spiritual in the first place, but I thought it would be interesting to look at it in a zen/spiritual way.

Quote:

A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good.




Give me your own spin on this.

Here is the complete quotation;

"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV ans see Coca-Cola and you can know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it."

Andy Warhol, famous pop artist.

On a side note; I hate the word spiritual. It sounds new age. I couldn't find an alternative. Can someone help me?
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patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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#208569 - 11/27/05 02:20 PM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: rideonlythelabel]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
I don't drink coke. I don't drink soda at all. It all tastes like chemicals, and literally makes me sick when I drink it. A mass produced drink with no soul, targeted for the masses.

As for the word 'spiritual'. I personally have had an issue with the word. I am 'uncomfortable' with it, as my Western sensibilities consider spirituality to be anti-rational. The ability to reconcile/integrate this word, and understanding is my current challenge, and has actually been the primary challenge I've had to face learning a martial art.


Edited by harlan (11/27/05 02:28 PM)

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#208570 - 11/27/05 02:24 PM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: rideonlythelabel]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Very interesting, Ride.

That is a good point to realize that many things can be enjoyed or appreciated the same way despite vast differences in culture, monetary status, location, etc.

It doesn't stop people from trying to find the next better XYZ, though.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#208571 - 11/27/05 02:30 PM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: rideonlythelabel]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I once saw a documentary which had footage of a S.American tribe that use Coke in their religious rituals because of the coco and caffeine in it. Apparently the local shop stocks up everytime they have a ceremony.

I believe Coke's (or maybe Pepsi's) unofficial motto is, "Here before the Christians".
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#208572 - 11/27/05 02:34 PM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: rideonlythelabel]
oldman Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Warhols work not unlike Zen is full of paradox and irony. It takes a look at the commonplace ( Campbells soup cans and Brillo boxes) and elevates them to a place of nobilty or "high" art. Warhols work turns high art upside down and replaces a respect for technical and traditonal skills gained over time with the techniques of graphic design and mass production. Warhol and other Pop artists produced work that reflected the tumultuous times they were created in.
There was a spiritual message to Warhols work. It was in large part overun by the successes and excesses he tried so hard to mock and then became synonomous with.

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#208573 - 11/27/05 09:26 PM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: MattJ]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Very interesting, Ride.

That is a good point to realize that many things can be enjoyed or appreciated the same way despite vast differences in culture, monetary status, location, etc.

It doesn't stop people from trying to find the next better XYZ, though.





Here is a true story.

Some aboriginal tribes, due to a certain influx of money into their lives, visted a nearby town and they bought some refrigeratures when it was explained to them the wonderful advantage of keeping food, especially meat, fresh for months. They took them back to their jungle settlement and of course the darn things didn't work because there was no electricity.
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#208574 - 11/28/05 12:03 AM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: harlan]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Quote:

A mass produced drink with no soul, targeted for the masses.





To each their own I suppose. I drink water more nowadays, but I still love Coke.
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Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

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#208575 - 11/28/05 12:10 AM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: ButterflyPalm]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Here's some definitions for ya.

Spirituality :
1. The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual.
2. The clergy.
3. Something, such as property or revenue, that belongs to the church or to a cleric. Often used in the plural.

--------

Ardor :
1. Fiery intensity of feeling. See Synonyms at passion.
2. Strong enthusiasm or devotion; zeal: “The dazzling conquest of Mexico gave a new impulse to the ardor of discovery” (William Hickling Prescott).
3. Intense heat or glow, as of fire.

-------

Devotion :

1. Ardent, often selfless affection and dedication, as to a person or principle. See Synonyms at love.
2. Religious ardor or zeal; piety.
3.
1. An act of religious observance or prayer, especially when private. Often used in the plural.
2. devotions Prayers or religious texts: a book of devotions.
4. The act of devoting or the state of being devoted.



--------------------


The basics of it comes down to this.

The words mean something, but we attribute meanings that are not theirs to them. Spirituality is simply the vocalization of concept. If we try to make these things more complex, than we're not trying to remove the attachments and in fact we are compounding the problem.

I think Harlan has the right idea, its not about trying to find a new word to describe it, its about trying to change the way in which we view things. Because its not the word we have the problem with.

Basically, Warhol has always had the Paradoxial Zen Quality in his life. Although his life is basically as far from removed from the actual Practice of Zen as humanly possible.
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While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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#208576 - 11/28/05 01:42 AM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: phoenixsflame]
Alicia Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 222
Loc: BC, Canada
I think Coke symbolizes the fact that a decline in the masses' culture arose from the mass production of comodities. This need for a successful democratic society, for everyone to have equal rights and access, manifested in the production of Coke, available to everyone. With equality, some individualism is sacrificed.

Many of Warhol's earlier pieces were commercial ones, and in his attempt to mock pop-art, he is ironically best known for his Campbell soup pieces (similarly to what oldman has already said). There are actually many of them, if you ever you get a chance to check out his exhibition. All in all, he sold out to pop, which in turn, is un-zen like. Then again, I don't know much about Zen.
_________________________
"If someone asked me what a human being ought to devote the maximum of his life to, I would answer: training. Train more than you sleep."
~Mas Oyama~

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#208577 - 11/28/05 03:19 AM Re: Andy Warhol and Coca-Cola [Re: Alicia]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

I think Coke symbolizes the fact that a decline in the masses' culture arose from the mass production of comodities. This need for a successful democratic society, for everyone to have equal rights and access, manifested in the production of Coke, available to everyone. With equality, some individualism is sacrificed.

Many of Warhol's earlier pieces were commercial ones, and in his attempt to mock pop-art, he is ironically best known for his Campbell soup pieces (similarly to what oldman has already said). There are actually many of them, if you ever you get a chance to check out his exhibition. All in all, he sold out to pop, which in turn, is un-zen like. Then again, I don't know much about Zen.





If you do not know much about Zen, you are already closer to realizing your Buddha nature than those of us who know much.

The beginners mind is a powerful thing...

Upon Cokes symbology... I would agree with you, but I would also take it to another level. It is a decline in the human animal praising their bodies. As Harlan has stated, it is simply refined chemicals.

Thus, who can say that they treat their bodies with total dignity if they constantly attack it with destructive forces such as those? But, thats an entirely different discussion.
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While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

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