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#208331 - 11/26/05 01:02 PM Is there a PP there?
PierrePressure Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 173
Hi all.
Well, you'll have to forgive me if this question has already been asked before, because this is (I think) my very first post on the PP board! I don't come here often because I haven't learned any PP stuff at my school (and I actually don't know if I ever will. I don't think I've seen it being used), but something came up just recently with a guest in our school that made me curious.

A TKD guy came to our school about two weeks ago, and he stayed and watched us spar and do groundwork. He's a green belt in TKD, and apparently, at his school they do groundwork in addition to traditional TKD stuff. Well, afterwards, he said something to a friend of mine (who goes to my same school) about how he would love to spar with my instructors. From that, my instructors started talking to him about it, and then they started talking about groundwork and stuff. He said something to my head instructor (we'll call him Mr. B) about using a pressure point that is located behind the knee when someone has you in side control. Mr. B got him into side control because he wanted to see what this kid was talking about, and the guy tried it, and it didn't work. Mr. B sat there very patiently while the guy tried to find it and do it correctly, but nothing ever happened.

So, my question is, could he not find it because of his lack of experience (him being a green belt and having just started ground defense)? Or is there a PP there at all?

Just curious .
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#208332 - 11/26/05 01:50 PM Re: Is there a PP there? [Re: PierrePressure]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Good question. All the joints are what AKK calls "leverage points", meaning you can inhibit range of motion by manipulating. For instance, you can easliy take you thumb and drive it down and into the back of someone's knee and put them on the floor. This is not exactly what is meant in the common sense of a "pressure point", since we are talking leverage and not nerve/chi manipulation, but you get my point.

There are points on the body such as the solar plexus, which can make a very uncomfortable or even incapacitating effect when struck correctly.

The back of the knee I have not had a high success rate with pressure points, as opposed to simple leverage. Perhaps Gavin or Kempoman might have more useful info on that subject.
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#208333 - 11/26/05 10:30 PM Re: Is there a PP there? [Re: MattJ]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
There is actually a small triangle of three pressure points behind the knee. They are on the urinary bladder meridian and are numbered either 38-39-40 or 52-53-54. Most martial artists use 52-53-54 because this numbering scheme better fits our needs but if you find a book numbering them the other way, you'll know to expect this.

They are great points. They give you nice leverage. Everybody knows you can make the knee bend with a good straight in or in and down kick into the space behind the knee. Your teacher was expecting it and braced for it. The green belt was probably not hitting striking, whatever he was doing, with good intent and he couldn't overcome the mental physical preparation your teacher put into his anticipation would be my guess.

It is hard to hit the back of the knee without activating these points and so you don't really get to play with what it would be like to bend the knee without them. The leverage is obvious. It is a hinge joint and you are kicking the back of the hinge. I'd have to say it isn't the best point in the world to demonstrate the joint manipulation possibilities of pressure points.

Personally I use them. A hook kick with the heel going into them is nice. It is a good place to yank with the handle of a tonfa or trip someone with an escrima stick threaded on these points on one leg and in front of the other. On the ground from in front of the leg, I pull on them with my wrists or forearms while using counter pressure above or below the knee depending on where I am.

Play with them a bit. Get familiar with what they can do for you.
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#208334 - 11/27/05 05:36 PM Re: Is there a PP there? [Re: underdog]
PierrePressure Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 173
Quote:

There is actually a small triangle of three pressure points behind the knee. They are on the urinary bladder meridian and are numbered either 38-39-40 or 52-53-54. Most martial artists use 52-53-54 because this numbering scheme better fits our needs but if you find a book numbering them the other way, you'll know to expect this.

They are great points. They give you nice leverage. Everybody knows you can make the knee bend with a good straight in or in and down kick into the space behind the knee. Your teacher was expecting it and braced for it. The green belt was probably not hitting striking, whatever he was doing, with good intent and he couldn't overcome the mental physical preparation your teacher put into his anticipation would be my guess.

It is hard to hit the back of the knee without activating these points and so you don't really get to play with what it would be like to bend the knee without them. The leverage is obvious. It is a hinge joint and you are kicking the back of the hinge. I'd have to say it isn't the best point in the world to demonstrate the joint manipulation possibilities of pressure points.

Personally I use them. A hook kick with the heel going into them is nice. It is a good place to yank with the handle of a tonfa or trip someone with an escrima stick threaded on these points on one leg and in front of the other. On the ground from in front of the leg, I pull on them with my wrists or forearms while using counter pressure above or below the knee depending on where I am.

Play with them a bit. Get familiar with what they can do for you.




Interesting. That makes sense. However, from what I understand, you're talking about when your opponent is standing, right? So, is it a good idea to use that particular PP when they are on their knees already? Because the guy was saying it's a good idea to use it when they are over you and you are on the ground. So is it still effective even when their knees are bent already? (Just out of curiousity. I know zero about this subject, and I think I should probably try to learn more )
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"If life gives you lemons, you blow those lemons to bits with your laser cannon!" - Brak

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#208335 - 11/27/05 06:57 PM Re: Is there a PP there? [Re: PierrePressure]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
My examples had us both standing. You are correct. If I am on the ground and uke is on his knees, then there isn't any further work for these points to do. With the knees bent as far as a right angle, if uke is on his knees, they aren't even really accessable.

If uke is STANDING over me, I am on the ground, and I want to bring him to the ground, then one idea, if I can get behind him, would be to grab the front of his ankle with one hand and elbow push into these points with the other hand to bring him down. Don't pull these points from the front because he'll fall on you and you shall have given him the mount. Also, you have no control, nor possibly would he, as to where that knee is going to land. Depending on your position, you could get it in the ribs.

I'm trying to see what you are saying. Did I come close?


Edited by underdog (11/27/05 07:01 PM)
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#208336 - 11/27/05 11:04 PM Re: Is there a PP there? [Re: underdog]
PierrePressure Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 173
Right on! Good job!

That answers my question. Thanks a bunch.
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"If life gives you lemons, you blow those lemons to bits with your laser cannon!" - Brak

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