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#204887 - 11/15/05 04:08 PM if interested in Iron Palm
sifu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 5
Loc: united states ohio
if you are interested in iron palm i CAN ASSIST YOU. i have been in iron palm and know true information about it. i would not waste time putting false info. cbrearley@gmail.com

Top
#204888 - 11/15/05 04:22 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
sifu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 5
Loc: united states ohio
for those who are familiar with iron palm, or anything related please remember to never underestimate your internal power. if you feel like you are not gaining any progress do not call somone over for a test:)! set up a flat red brick or two,making sure it is sturdy and try to break it. remember also anyone can forcefully plow through a brick, with using energy-you should only slap the brick with a cloth (to avoid sting) over the brick and see if it breaks. if it does your are doing well. if you are not, you need more practice or you need to correct your mistakes.
if you want to visit the main site i got my iron palm items from : www.wle.com in the search type in "iron palm master kit."
-sifu Brearley

Top
#204889 - 11/15/05 04:41 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Why do you call yourself sifu?
_________________________
Chris Haynes

Top
#204890 - 11/15/05 04:44 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
sifu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 5
Loc: united states ohio
Sifu is chinese for "master."

Top
#204891 - 11/15/05 05:54 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
I know what sifu means.
Why do you think that you should be called master/sifu when you are still in high school? Are you really that good at what you do?
_________________________
Chris Haynes

Top
#204892 - 11/16/05 01:41 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I'm probably going to hate myself for this tomorrow but...

Did you by any chance master iron palm through a home study course?

Have you had any formal training?

Why does your profile say you’re in Ohio but your IP says you’re in Michigan?
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

Top
#204893 - 11/16/05 10:33 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
If you have an "Iron Palm", why do you need to cover the brick with a cloth? It would seem that the "sting" would not affect an iron palm practioner

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

Top
#204894 - 11/16/05 11:35 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: BuDoc]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

It would seem that the "sting" would not affect an iron palm practioner




It would also seem that it should not affect the 'master'.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

Top
#204895 - 11/16/05 04:03 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

if you are interested in iron palm i CAN ASSIST YOU. i have been in iron palm and know true information about it. i would not waste time putting false info




Quote:

for those who are familiar with iron palm, or anything related please remember to never underestimate your internal power. if you feel like you are not gaining any progress do not call somone over for a test:)! set up a flat red brick or two,making sure it is sturdy and try to break it. remember also anyone can forcefully plow through a brick, with using energy-you should only slap the brick with a cloth (to avoid sting) over the brick and see if it breaks. if it does your are doing well. if you are not, you need more practice or you need to correct your mistakes.
if you want to visit the main site i got my iron palm items from : www.wle.com in the search type in "iron palm master kit."
-sifu Brearley




WOW! A real live Iron Palm Master. You would really take the time to share the information that you bought from wing lam with us? Really? Oh now don't we feel special.

Please entrall us with your storehouse of information about iron palm.

Why did I waste all that time training in a qualified lineage when I could have just asked you!(Smacks self in head)

Does your mommy and daddy know you are out posting info on Rosey...I mean Iron Palm.

-KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#204896 - 11/16/05 04:06 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

Sifu is chinese for "master."




[Princess Bride]You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means[/Princess Bride]

-KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#204897 - 11/16/05 06:57 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
sifu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 5
Loc: united states ohio
i call myself sifu only because i know what im talking about. i know the training regime, and the facts. i aslo call myself sifu because november of next school girl i will have mastered iron palm. i am almost there. besides, this forum isnt suposed to be pick out the obvious and point fun at the negatives. so dont reply and waist my time if you dont want any help or interest.

Top
#204898 - 11/16/05 07:04 PM again [Re: sifu]
sifu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 5
Loc: united states ohio
and i say again, you can learn it but i can HELP you in you have any QUESTIONS key words genius. and as you practice iron palm your hands become more sensitive due to good energy flow, so you cover a brick with a cloth. or you dont have to it is up to you, so do not lecture me, i am just here to ASSIST. not train. ( god!)

Top
#204899 - 11/16/05 07:36 PM Re: again [Re: sifu]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Pray do tell.... I'm interested to learn. Please assist me. How do I learn this??

Top
#204900 - 11/16/05 09:14 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Kempoman]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Quote:

Sifu is chinese for "master."




[Princess Bride]You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means[/Princess Bride]

-KM




BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

SCORE SO FAR -

Kempoman - 1,000,000,000,000,000

Sifu - 0
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#204901 - 11/17/05 12:59 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: MattJ]
SwordsmanAJ Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 27
Loc: Where its cold half the year
That was a actually funny i must say MattJ.
Good line you used from the princess bride.

Top
#204902 - 11/17/05 01:22 AM Re: again [Re: sifu]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Since your new here i'll be nice and explain how things work.

You, being the "master" you are, are going to be asked a series of questions, just as all the "master" before you who have come here offering to help us. Your only job at this point will be to answer the questions DIRECTLY and TRUTHFULLY . I'll even go so far as to tell you what you should NOT do during this interaction. The first thing you shouldn't do is avoid or ignore the questions, this will only make you look bad and throw your credibility out the window. Secondly you shouldn't fly off the handle and start talking trash, cursing, committing personal attacks or breaking any of the forum rules in response to these questions. This will only get you banned. Thirdly, don't lie. The handful of people who still pay attention to this section are actually pretty skilled practitioners and know quite a bit about what they are doing. There are more than likely 3-5 members here who may have very well been training longer than you have been alive. Additionally YOU do not dictate who posts here or what they post, that is my job.

As for the reason behind these questions it's simple. If you intend to help people or give them training tips then i would like to know your background. Like i said before, i ask these same general questions of all the new people who come here to enlighten us. These questions will give me an idea of where you are coming from and will tell me where you are going.

1. What training background do you have?

2. Is your training and knowledge of the material come strictly from home study?

3. How long have you been training and how often?

4. What else have you studied?

5. Why does your profile say you’re in Ohio but your IP says you’re in Michigan?

I hope you actually want to be a useful member of this forum and not give me a reason to send you on your way. You might learn something if you stay.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

Top
#204903 - 11/17/05 05:18 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
Quote:

....... i aslo call myself sifu because november of next school girl i will have mastered iron palm........




What is "november of next school girl"?
Sharon
_________________________
Anyone mind if I sit down?

Top
#204904 - 11/17/05 08:27 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: still wadowoman]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Sharon -

Quote:

so dont reply and waist my time if you dont want any help or interest





Yes, Please don't "waist" his time.

By next schoolgirl, he will have certainly mastered his palm. Guaranteed.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#204905 - 11/17/05 11:25 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

i call myself sifu only because i know what im talking about. i know the training regime, and the facts. i aslo call myself sifu because november of next school girl i will have mastered iron palm. i am almost there.



Well then, by this reasoning you are a 'sifu' of the english language as well!!!

Be careful or you will soon be pontificating about the teachings of Iorn Plam!


Quote:

besides, this forum isnt suposed to be pick out the obvious and point fun at the negatives.




So we weren't supposed to have noticed that you are barely literate 13 year old sifu?



Quote:

so dont reply and waist my time if you dont want any help or interest.




I am really having a difficult time understanding your posts. Are you positive that you will be able to communicate your thoughts on iron palm training coherantly enough that you don't cause more confusion?


-KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#204906 - 11/17/05 06:29 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: MattJ]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

By next schoolgirl, he will have certainly mastered his palm. Guaranteed.




Matt, that was cruel....

Seriously, I would like to know how "sifu" can assist. Please do share...

Top
#204907 - 11/17/05 07:07 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: still wadowoman]
LastGURU Offline
The one who knows
Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 148
Loc: Riga, Latvia
Quote:

Quote:

....... i aslo call myself sifu because november of next school girl i will have mastered iron palm........




What is "november of next school girl"?
Sharon



i *think* that was supposed to be the next school year...
_________________________
Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without

Top
#204908 - 11/18/05 01:58 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: LastGURU]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Probably, the november girl doesn't have much to do with scool, does she?

Top
#204909 - 12/04/05 01:09 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
update from 'sifu': "I have created a video demonstrating my authentic training...please review and consult.
(btw...did I mention 'sifu' means 'master'? I meant it means 'teacher')"
http://www.jokaroo.com/funnyvideos/karate.html

I have typed in this post for sifu since his typing hand is no longer available. -EM

Top
#204910 - 12/04/05 03:18 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Ed_Morris]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Only one typing hand? What does he do with the other? Never mind, forget i asked.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

Top
#204911 - 12/04/05 05:37 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: laf7773]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
What is the sound of one hand typing?

Ed, my filtering does not let me in; your iron-palm training program must have a high degree of adult content; is training done in the nude?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#204912 - 12/04/05 11:22 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
try this:
http://images2.jokaroo.net/videos/karate.wmv
If that doesn't work, find an adult to allow you access to the site. lol

Top
#204913 - 12/04/05 09:17 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Ed_Morris]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
My mommy let me see it after I agreed to have a painful cut in my weekly allowance.

WHAT!!!!

There has been a serious breach of security. I kept that tape locked for 25 years in a bank vault.

I am seeing my lawyers right now!!!!!

Thanks Ed, for bringing this to my attention.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#204914 - 12/05/05 01:45 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: ButterflyPalm]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
It would appear that "sifu" has closed the temple doors on us. What shall we ever do?
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

Top
#204915 - 12/05/05 06:50 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: laf7773]
LastGURU Offline
The one who knows
Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 148
Loc: Riga, Latvia
Quote:

It would appear that "sifu" has closed the temple doors on us. What shall we ever do?


a seppuku, perhaps?
_________________________
Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without

Top
#204916 - 12/07/05 02:36 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: LastGURU]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Quote:

It would appear that "sifu" has closed the temple doors on us. What shall we ever do?


a seppuku, perhaps?




No need. I have another more recent tape showing the secret training for a Cast-Iron Palm, if anybody is interested.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#204917 - 12/08/05 08:06 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: ButterflyPalm]
LastGURU Offline
The one who knows
Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 148
Loc: Riga, Latvia
Quote:

I have another more recent tape showing the secret training for a Cast-Iron Palm, if anybody is interested.


yes, we are
_________________________
Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without

Top
#204918 - 12/09/05 01:21 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: LastGURU]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
In your eagerness, you perhaps missed the word "secret?"
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#204919 - 12/09/05 01:34 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: ButterflyPalm]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
My secret clearance is still good.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

Top
#204920 - 12/09/05 03:26 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: laf7773]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
All right, you guys have cornered me.

Be warned, to say that the training is tough is an understatement.

So as a preliminary test of resolve, a first-level initiation exercise has to be conducted first.

Here it is:-

Unfortunately the content of the site the video is on isn't appropriate for this site.


Edited by laf7773 (12/09/05 10:54 AM)
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#204921 - 12/09/05 01:47 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: ButterflyPalm]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Your Cast Iron Fist is nothing in comparison to my Carbon Steel Knife Hand.... Though, my Steel Pot Belly needs work...
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

Top
#204922 - 12/09/05 11:43 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: phoenixsflame]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Wok on, bro, wok on.

I actually have training tapes for them all, but Laf will probably edit them, on the basis, I think, that the MA world is not yet ready for them. Back to the bank vault, I suppose
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#204923 - 12/10/05 02:42 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: ButterflyPalm]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Actually, I think the MA world could use some better cooks. I've met very few good cooks that were also MA'ists...
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

Top
#204924 - 01/23/06 10:40 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: phoenixsflame]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
IF Y'ALL ARE PLANNING ON ANY IRON TRAINING ( CONDITIONING ) THEN YOU WILL NEED TO DEVELOP YOUR CHI FIRST. VERY IMPORTANT.

Top
#204925 - 01/24/06 08:05 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
How would you recommend that we do that?

Top
#204926 - 01/24/06 02:49 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
Quote:

How would you recommend that we do that?



Yes, me wantee chi. Please do tell.

Top
#204927 - 01/24/06 10:21 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: phoenixsflame]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

Your Cast Iron Fist is nothing in comparison to my Carbon Steel Knife Hand.... Though, my Steel Pot Belly needs work...




I think you all must have Wooden Heads.
In fact I'm sure of it.

Dont tease the newbies too much though, we can do this in more subtle + painful [er, "fun"] ways...
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#204928 - 01/26/06 10:21 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Reiki]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
you can develop your energy ( chi ) by bascily doing almost anytype of internal arts. the main ones are taijiquan, xingyiquan,and baguazhang ( id recommand a teacher if your going to train in these arts ). right now im developing my chi by doing zhan zhuang ( stationary or static qigong which you dont need a teacher for ) and simple qigong exercises.

Top
#204929 - 01/27/06 06:03 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
It seems strange to me that this is coming from me, but I have to say I disagree somewhat.
You can learn a lot of things without a teacher, but if you learn them correctly is another question. If you have no teacher, some things are "easy" to learn and some things are extremly hard.

I think Zhan Zhuang isn`t exactly easy. You can never be 100% sure that you`re doing it correctly, unless a teacher checks you out. A good thing about Zhan Zhuang though, is that it doesn`t have bad side effects if you do it incorrectly. Or does it?


Edited by Kosh (01/27/06 06:04 PM)

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#204930 - 01/27/06 10:57 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Kosh]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
Quote:

It seems strange to me that this is coming from me, but I have to say I disagree somewhat.
You can learn a lot of things without a teacher, but if you learn them correctly is another question. If you have no teacher, some things are "easy" to learn and some things are extremly hard.




i agree with that greatly.

Quote:

I think Zhan Zhuang isn`t exactly easy. You can never be 100% sure that you`re doing it correctly, unless a teacher checks you out.




in a way i dont really agree with this one because when i do zhan zhuang i have a large mirror to look at if my posture feels like its not right. in the other way i agree that you might need a teacher to see if your posture is right because some people might not have a large mirror to check there posture in. but i would also rather have a friend to check my posture because for a teacher to check it would equal money when thats the only thing you needed help on. i also think thats probably the hardest part about zhan zhuang is to keep your posture prefect during it, so i dont really thinks its worth the time and money when you can get a friend to check it for free unless hes greedy.lol.

Top
#204931 - 01/28/06 11:33 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
How does your friend know what the correct posture is?
There is a lot more to proper standing than what you see on the outside. The outside is where Zhan Zhuang begins, it is from there that the practiotioner relaxes more and more and learns to 'listen' to their body and thus bring the practice to a more internal level.
As an internal method of training, Zhan Zhuang has many different areas of focus that must be combined. The structure, the mind, and the emotions.
Is your body in a state where a teacher or partner can physicaly apply pressure without the engaement of the musculature?
Is your mind in a state of rest?
Where are your emotions?
These are the main areas one needs to focs on when standing.
Keep in mind that standing is not only a useful tool as far as training internal power. It is also a way of meditating.

I suppose that I will always stand in disagreement that a teacher is not needed to check your Zhan Zhuang. The teacher is there because they know more than you on a particular subject and you are there to learn. Not to mention that the teacher can point out micro adjustments that need to be made to insure you are practicing correctly. Even though it seems simple to do, Zhan Zhuang can have potentially negative side effects if not trained properly, this is why a teacher is necessary. The teacher can also lead you to more rapid progress than you might be able to achieve on your own.
Have the teachers help when it is available and use the teachers teachings on your own when they are not available, this is the way to make progress in the IMA's. Get a teacher and train your butt off!

Kind regards,

Chris
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Chris Haynes

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#204932 - 01/28/06 04:43 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
good point

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#204933 - 01/29/06 03:55 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Hi, fisherman.

Without disagreeing in the least, I'd like to ask if you could elaborate a little on this statement:

"Zhan Zhuang can have potentially negative side effects if not trained properly"

as my occupation puts me in a position where I'm (among many other things of course) trying to help people with their posture, it could be important for me to know of any such potential danger!

Thank's

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#204934 - 01/29/06 12:36 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: nenipp]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
Quote:

Hi, fisherman.

Without disagreeing in the least, I'd like to ask if you could elaborate a little on this statement:

"Zhan Zhuang can have potentially negative side effects if not trained properly"

as my occupation puts me in a position where I'm (among many other things of course) trying to help people with their posture, it could be important for me to know of any such potential danger!

Thank's



some posibilities- Heartburn, 'Energy dispersion' Excessive Yin, (weakness, sickness) Excessive Yang, (overheated head, burnout), OVER-abundant sexual desire, insomnia......

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#204935 - 01/29/06 05:08 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Lucid Warrior]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
what is a energy dispersion and a burn out? and the having the over-abundant sexual disire is a weird one.

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#204936 - 01/29/06 05:49 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
From someone who is by NO means an expert (me) ...

Energy dispersion is when your strength disperses to the limbs and becomes external strength, while internal strength becomes emptied.

Burnout, as I understand it, is similar to what weightlifters call overtraining, except it can be worse with qigong because the central nervous system may be affected more.

The overabundance of sexual desire is probably something you wont need to worry about, but when chi and vitality increases, so does 'sexual energy' and what is considered 'original chi'. The increase in 'sexual energy' is not a bad thing, but not every practicioner is used to it and can get a little lost in their sexual desires if a firm foundation is not set in place first.

Fisherman can give you a more experienced account for what can go wrong since he has more years practice than I.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to scare you off, just be careful and mindful of what you are doing, and know that Fisherman is an experienced veteran in the IMAs and that he gives good advice.

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#204937 - 01/29/06 08:04 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Lucid Warrior]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

Without disagreeing in the least, I'd like to ask if you could elaborate a little on this statement:

"Zhan Zhuang can have potentially negative side effects if not trained properly"



Boy, there really isn't any short answer to this, so here goes!!
Nenipp, from what I have gathered, you seem to have a good knowledge and a reliable education on what you do as far as helping others with their posture. If posture is all you are working on, then the negative side effects are lessened. Zhan zhuang when practiced properly has many different components that are being trained, not just posture.
Proper zhan zhuang training should incorperate the training of proper body structure, proper intent/mind, and proper breathing/emotions.
It is best to start at the structural level. Refining the posture of the body till it is at its strongest structural alignment while in a state of relaxation. The more you relax the more you shold be able to listen with your mind and feel when some part of the body is out of whack because there will be muscular tension in the area that is 'holding on'. If you ignore this 'holding' sensation and don't make the micro adjustments required to let go of the hold then you may be in fact pulling your body out of proper alignment. If you have someone who knows what the proper structure is to guide you, and you have the patience to relax and listen to your body then negative side effects on the physical level may be omited.
Then there is the breathing, mental, emotional, and at the high levels, spiritual components of proper zhan zhuang traning. The mind must be as relaxed as the body, yet the mind must still stay alive and aware. This has been one of the most difficult parts in standing practice for me. It is difficult to maitain the proper mental and emotonal state while breathing and maintaing the proper structural alignment. It is during this traing that the frustration of trying to do things right actualy leads to negative side effects.
What really drives me nuts is to take the same concepts of training in zhan zhuang and add movement! IMHO, this is what makes the IMA's a very high level practice.
What you train and how you train it will dictate the side effects good or bad.
I sincerely hope that this cleared the air somewhat.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#204938 - 01/29/06 11:10 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Lucid Warrior]
RyuuJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
quote:Energy dispersion is when your strength disperses to the limbs and becomes external strength, while internal strength becomes emptied.

this is a very good thing ( in my eyes of course ) it is the process of your body ( or mind dont know ) making jing.

this below is by josh skinner just to let y'all know.
Developing your Qi is the foundation of strength with no real focus (it can make you a bit stronger and a lot healthier but not much else) and jing training takes that strength, refines it, and gives it a focus.


Edited by RyuuJitsu (01/29/06 11:14 PM)

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#204939 - 01/30/06 12:32 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
Quote:

quote:Energy dispersion is when your strength disperses to the limbs and becomes external strength, while internal strength becomes emptied.

this is a very good thing ( in my eyes of course ) it is the process of your body ( or mind dont know ) making jing.

this below is by josh skinner just to let y'all know.
Developing your Qi is the foundation of strength with no real focus (it can make you a bit stronger and a lot healthier but not much else) and jing training takes that strength, refines it, and gives it a focus.




How many years have you been training and studying this?

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#204940 - 01/30/06 02:55 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Thank you fisherman, yes it cleared thing nicely.
Your post didn't surprise me at all, which is good; if it had, I might have needed to worry!

The guidance I can give is in a way deeper than my formal education allows, due to my qigong, ma and psychomotor therapy background, but I have no ima competence.
If any potential danger is involved, that I might have overlooked or just been ignorant of, it's important that I educate myself.

Your words are however compatible with my experiance and I believe that I can in fact offer the guidance that you declare necessary as far as posture, breathing and relaxed movement goes; intention and emotion involved in ima is another matter of course, but I don't deal out any of that so I needn't worry about it...

...thank's again!

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#204941 - 02/02/06 12:28 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Lucid Warrior]
RockHard Huy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 65
Quote:

Excessive Yang, (overheated head, burnout),



After a period of excessive Yang, would an equally long period of Yin follow in order to counterbalance the effects?
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"It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm." Mike Tyson

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#204942 - 02/02/06 08:35 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RockHard Huy]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Good question.
I would say yes. Once you have balanced out you are better off not have periods of excess. It is better to seek balance at all times. Practicing excessive yang or yin tendencies will have different side effects for each. I you can work on maintaining balance in your practice you can acheive the maximum health benefit.
IMA's are in a major way concerned with health. If you are recieving ill effects from your training then what is the point?
Maybe someone with more insight on the traditional chinese medicine standpoint can chime in here?
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#204943 - 02/07/06 07:05 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Fisherman]
RyuuJitsu Offline
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Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 25
Loc: every where and no where
well i just found this out about a month ago but the guy i quoted i think has had more experince.

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#204944 - 02/19/06 04:24 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RyuuJitsu]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
How long have you been studying Qigong or whatever it is you are doing RyuuJitsu? That is what I was wondering, not how long you have been researching jing.

I may be mistaken about this, but I think that Jing training would be a little premature until you have some backround in basic qigong, physical structure (tendon/fascia) and opened energy channels.

I really would appreciate it if someone else would comment more on this, because I am sort of in over my head.

The main thing I am trying to get across is that Fisherman is not wrong in suggesting that you get a teacher, and there are so many reasons why. When I mentioned 'energy dispersion' I was mainly referring to the energy system involved in tendon changing training and other qigongs involving the physical structure. Jing training (as I understand it) will not take you very far without first learning the basics. With a teacher, there would be no confusion. That is why Fisherman has told you to get one. All of this is sort of hypocrisy from me because I am now in between teachers, but regardless of my folly, Fisherman is still not wrong.

Steve

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#204945 - 02/19/06 05:48 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Lucid Warrior]
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Hey lucid - thanks for the support!

Just because the good ol' horse needs a few extra whacks!

In order to properly train jing you must first aquire a strong foundation. If you do not have a strong foundation you will not be able to issue jing. You must first learn the basics of structure, of breathing, and the use of the mind/intent. If you do not have someone to actually show you these things then you will not be able to effectively issue jing.
I think that it is simple to see be not so simple to do.
Sturcture and relaxation come first, then comes intent and movement. A lot of people don't even realize that you cannot generate full power unless you have the proper structure to transmit that power through! This is why structure comes first. There is power in structure. The is more power when the structure is in motion. It is learning to issue paticular power through the structure that jing is concerned with.
Teachers sure do help to point that stuff out though..
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#204946 - 05/20/06 02:35 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: sifu]
peter586 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 110
how could you call your self sifu your a loser mate. somone needs to bash you.so you ordered your self a master kit and trained a bit doesent make you master.

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#204947 - 08/31/06 12:06 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: peter586]
Mr_Patterson001 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1
Hello. I am interested in learning the iron palm style. I am having trouble locating a teacher in Maryland. Does anyone know of one? Thanks

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#204948 - 08/31/06 11:21 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Mr_Patterson001]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hi Mr_Patterson001.

You may wish to contact Anthony Goh. He is a well known KF instructor in Baltimore area, that may be able to help you.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#204949 - 09/16/06 07:07 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Lucid Warrior]
RonH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 19
I would advise some training in jing would be acceptable in the beginning. It does help the mind know where it is trying to get to. Previews can be big helps, no matter the skill level of MA. It's true it won't be as effective, as when you're more skilled, but the body can be allowed to start to get used to what it will one day do. That's how I would teach it. The basics are necessary, but previews can help drive a student to better study when they're excited about a particular goal, as long as that is never the end goal.

I"m for the 3 main sources of material, as in any MA: Live person teacher, book and video. Hands on experience with someone you can interact with, the ideas of others, so that you don't fall into a cult view trap of the art and another source from someone else for seeing how certain things are done. Youtube is great for this and many here know this, given the number of links that link to videos.

But, there is a level of training, MA, iron palm, whatever, that is often overlooked that is the 4th source. It gets to a certain point and then, it just stops. That point is consciousness work. You will hear again and again how training to be reflexive is good with a little bit of thought here and there. You hear about people saying to the cops 'I don't know how many times I hit him, talk to the doc in the ER seeing him'. Yes, that's good and is a fine goal, but it is still not a top goal of consciousness work that should be aimed for.

What is not often told of is the merger of the conscious and subconscious minds. Some don't speak of this because their student has progressed that far, but a lot don't because they just think that reflexive thinking for fighting is a good stopping point.

I can tell you it is not. After merging the consicous with the subconscious minds to a certain degree and having that merger all the time, simple reflexive fighting is an abhorently pitiful excuse for a level to stop at and there is no way you will want to go back to simple reflexive fighting.

For the martial aspect of fighting, there is just so many benefits that I can run off a list of them right now and there would still be donzens more that are useful when you go from possible scenario to possible scenario.

The way to do it is being more aware of your unconscious processes. Yes, this is often done in pretty much all fight training (survival or sport), but what I often see is that it's mostly just superficial touching upon in lessons. The focus on it is so small, it'd be like teaching a child only part of the grammer of their native language. The part you give them is barely enough to get by in everyday life.

The important point is that you believe, right now that there is a no difference between your consicous mind and subconscious mind. That you are consciously aware of it, regardless if you are picking up on thoughts that say that it isn't possible or that it hasn't happened yet. These you must ignore until they no longer exist.

There was a website that gave lessons on kundalini yoga. There was like 24 lessons or something. From my own experience, they do know what they are talking about and the lessons are free, so it's an added bonus. I forget if they're still around, probably are though. Anyway, a lot of what they talk about is a big help on bridging the divide between the conscious and the subconscious and being aware of the singals sent to your brain from your body. And doing so is an extremely big help with iron palm and with MA in general. I had years of energy work experience before I had even started my own kundalini and had long since before it I had started already bridging the gap between my conscious and unconscious minds. I can speak from experience that kundalini does help.

The point about bridging the gap is that the subconscious does pick up on cues from the environment that the conscious mind won't pick up and being consciously aware of them infinitely increaases your proficiency in MA. If you think the conscious mind can hold tons of information in memory, the subconscious is multiple supercomputers worth and it is avavilable to you instantly. It's like your mind is hooked up to a computer. It is such a great feeling. In everyday life, your brain power increases dramatically and you don't even need to have a brain scan to know that. You can feel it. Your brain is in the fast lane pretty much all the time that every part of your mind is enhanced. Things that help stimulate thought processes make this go even further and there isn't any kind of burnout factor involved. My words aren't adequately describing the full extent this means.

You see the level of work you do when fighting reflexively and it's over in a split second. Imagine what it would be like, if you were consciously aware of eveything you were doing and could easily recall it afterwards. The stronger and larger the bridge is, the better your fighting becomes, either defense or offense. You will also be far better off than most other people that stop at thinking that reflexive fighting is the top because while they are reacting, you are reacting AND thinking far much more than others.

The subconsious mind is extremely powerful, able to control and regulate all the cells and functions of the body. Having more conscious control of the subconscious mind allows for mental control of how all the cells of your body react to conscious thought, which aids in many things, such as all facits of health, from the immune system to helping to stimulate how you react to certian stimuli, making quicker advancements in things, like stretching, being more aware of sensory inputs for balance and angles to deliver maximum effort necessary at the right angle and at the right spot and also with energy work development, which is very important in iron palm/chest/leg/spit/etc.

I have tried some physical conditioning for iron palm, but I have a preference to the energy development side of it. My personal preference is that, while many do advocate physical conditioning, you're taking a big chance because of the risk of nerve/muscle/bone damage. They say that there was bone breaking done in olden times to strengthen the hands for iron palm and the other bones for iron shirt/etc. and that's just insane to me. I'm also biased to energetic development because of how fast I developed.

What I've found is that if you're naturally strong enough energetically, physical conditioning for iron palm/shirt becomes more and more meaningless.

Also, I had a nervo-musclular injury a few years ago and I got into reiki, so I had put in a lot of effort/energy into making my hands/wrists well. For anyone interested in iron palm/shirt, becoming attuned in reiki is a big help given how strong the energy is.

I've seen some people giving pointers on punches, where they say your arm should be relaxed, which is fine, but then, they say that when you're about to make contact, to add some more tension in your muscles, such as the fist. And they don't make the distinction that it's just for learning the movements and then, you use less and less tension, as you go on. It's good when your punching a person, but with better energy development, and with iron palm, it isn't that good.

Take a lesson from the drunk driver survivors of the world. When they are drunk enough, their muscles don't get tense when they crash their cars. Like flowing water, they will surround their steering wheel and bounce back. When they get out, they have only a minor injury a lot of the time.

The more self-control you can exert on your body, especially on the wrist/hand areas, the more you can relax the soft tissue. This will make your bones and soft tissue "wrap around itself".

For a finger strike with all four fingers together, it takes very little energy and they shouldn't be tight together...just lightly touching, but pretty much no space in-between the digits. The thumb can hang loosely by the side and out a little. For a 2 finger strike, the pads of the ring and pinkie finger don't have to touch the palm. It's enough to just have the fingers bent at the middle knuckle, so the tips of those 2 fingers are pointing back at you. Again, the fingers are only lightly touching.

For the thumb in the 4 and 2 finger strikes and the ring and pinkie in the 2 finger strike, keeping the thumb and the ring and pinkie fingers loose will let them "wrap around" anything that happens to run into it. The compression of the soft tissue of the ligaments and muscles and skin will happen and then, rebound.

For palm strikes, it's the same thing. The wrist is bent back, but there is little tension in the muscles...just enough to keep the wrist bent. Most of the muscles of the hand can be kept very loose. The fingers are slightly bent with only enough tension to bend the digits, so the fingers and the other parts of your hand can wrap around anything they run into to the limit damage.

Now, when I had my nervo-muscular injury and I used my reiki to get it back into shape and that helped advanced that are of me in particular for iron palm.

The same ability to direct energy out of yourself for energy healing can let you direct it out of someone else from a distance. I'm not talking about any empty force work. That's pushing. I'm speaking about sending someone's energy out of them to make them winded or even unconscious or dead. It can happen, but it depends on your skill level (how much you can move at one time in any given second -- similar the empty force, but the technique is different and requires less skill to perform on a regular basis). Another part of the energy development track is increasing your skill in removing the energy of solid objects, making them more brittle and easier to destroy. This will cause less damage to your material body parts and make you look like a destruction God. How far you go is limited to you. The same energy in you is what's in inorganic materials. Humans are biochemical machines, which use both organic and inorganic pieces for survival. Giving healing energy strengthens the overall energy field of the creature. The reverse is just sapping it away, though I have never heard of any dim mak lessons that even touch on this, while talking mainly about using chi on the meridians. The same chi that helps keep the atoms of your body together, helps to keep the atoms of a piece of stone together. The more you take, the more brittle it becomes, though I'd advise against drawing it into yourself. The Earth is a good place, unless it's a life or death situation and you need a "recharge". A good cleansing is recommended with that. Bathing in epsom salts, showering, etc. As a naturally empathic person, taking in someone else's vibrations isn't pleasant. It's often down right disturbing.

Just for completeness sake, if you're gonna recharge, recharge the dan tien. Don't just have it floating around your body. Visualize it going into your subnaval dan tien, like you would with energy raising exercises. There's such a huge focus on the subnaval dan tien for charging in IMA that you should just use the familiarity you've developed in your practicing. This familiarity will let you do more reflexive energy work than thinking 'all right, it's floating in my arm, now I gotta move it to my right leg to block this kick to my knee' and you can get back to working on saving your life.

If you want to ignore 'energy sapping' go with energy changing. Imagine that someone/something's energy level is not regular, but just very very weak. So weak that you can easily and effortlessly break through it. You could call this the opposite of a 'dragonball Z power flare up', if you wanted to use a visual from manga. But, bare in mind, I haven't used this technique in a fight. It's only theory at this point. I came up with the idea based on the fact that one day I was feeling sluggish when I woke up. Then, I imagined my 'aura' was super powerful and I instantly perked up and was back to my full of energy self all day long and had a very keen focus. If you were to practice this, just imagine that the energy of the aura has gone down, like when you turn down the strength of a fire and you shouldn't worry about 'well, where is the energy going'. The important thing to think about is that the energy is so very low. Think of it as a variation of using 4 ounces to move a thousand pounds.

When it comes to training without a teacher, I'd recommend Mantak Chia's Iron Shirt. Some don't like his work, but my experience says he knows what he's talking about. There are many ways to stream line the exercises in the series, but it's still excellent.

Is there a post length limit here?

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#204950 - 10/09/06 11:30 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Mr_Patterson001]
Risen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 12
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:Energy dispersion is when your strength disperses to the limbs and becomes external strength, while internal strength becomes emptied.

this is a very good thing ( in my eyes of course ) it is the process of your body ( or mind dont know ) making jing.

this below is by josh skinner just to let y'all know.
Developing your Qi is the foundation of strength with no real focus (it can make you a bit stronger and a lot healthier but not much else) and jing training takes that strength, refines it, and gives it a focus.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody has commented on the general concensus that jing (prenatal chi) can't be cultivated as chi can. If we're talking about birth chi, that energy that is lost cannot be regained as post-birth chi can. Anybody care to comment?

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#204951 - 10/10/06 05:36 PM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: Risen]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
What do either of the two previous post have to do with Iron Palm?

Puzzled.

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#204952 - 10/11/06 09:06 AM Re: if interested in Iron Palm [Re: RonH]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

'd recommend Mantak Chia's Iron Shirt. Some don't like his work, but my experience says he knows what he's talking about. There are many ways to stream line the exercises in the series, but it's still excellent.



I might recommend Mantak Chia's stuff to read, however, I would wait a while and gain some experience from training with a teacher before attempting some of his higher level neigong practices. B
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Chris Haynes

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