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#204244 - 11/28/05 02:26 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: NEAS]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Sorry to double post, but this strikes me as something I should not just edit in. Two different focii.

Quote:

Quote
I don't like that explanation.It makes it sound like a person should just block with force and that's the true meaning. Blocks are much more in my opinion,otherwise why the chamber?



Neasís commentís.
Brian can you explain in a bit more detail?




He brought much detail into it. The concept of Chambering is in and of itself an entire block/strike. If you delve into the depth of your training, you will see that there is no motion without reason. These movments, these twists and turns and "seemingly" unneeded motions such as the Chamber in a block, the twist of a wrist in a strike, etc, etc...

These are the "Secret" techniques. These are the Attacks that are blocks... If you ask about a straight punch as a block, I'd have you research "Cut Punching" the concept of punching along another persons arm line and pushing it away with the twist of your elbow to strike them.

If you ask about a kick, well. Its an obvious answer...

Elbow strikes? Come on...

Shuto? Kakitae? Open hand techniques? Strikes as blocks? Its pretty evident if you take the entire technique into consideration instead of simply the very last end bit of it.
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#204245 - 11/28/05 02:27 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: CVV]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Well Chris, looks like the thread just got a page longer since we last wrote...luckily it's pretty much at where you left it.
Intersting about the 2 secrets per goju kata...I never heard that. I'd think there were alot more since most kata are at least 150 years old and passed thru at least half a dozen Sensei, each one teaching their own application ideas. each one with a different set of 'secrets'.

If this DID happen (I'm not saying it did): Nobody could really blame Miyagi for using the notion of learning 'secrets' to college students in order to boost popularity of Karate practice and acceptance in Japan.

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#204246 - 11/28/05 02:42 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: NEAS]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
NEAS


It was not some kind of attack or slam at you.

Sorry that you misunderstood.

My comment was not directed at you or toward you at all--it was directed at Joel M for a really good turn of phrase.

It was funny turn of phrase on Joel M part.

See the difference???

No insult or put down was meant or implied.

In regard to your second question--I already DID comment on the topic at hand.


Edited by cxt (11/28/05 02:43 PM)
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#204247 - 11/28/05 02:44 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: phoenixsflame]
NEAS Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 168
Thank you for your answer. Nice techniques.I think that Soto-uke also can be used for the start of a wrist lock if the wrist is grabbed by an opponent.
As regards head butts again nice techniques although I think there are more ways of using them.

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#204248 - 11/28/05 02:51 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: NEAS]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

Thank you for your answer. Nice techniques.I think that Soto-uke also can be used for the start of a wrist lock if the wrist is grabbed by an opponent.
As regards head butts again nice techniques although I think there are more ways of using them.





I agree, I think that every technique that we practice has hundreds if not thousands of applications. Its just a matter of training your eyes to see them and your body to practice.
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#204249 - 11/28/05 02:57 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: phoenixsflame]
NEAS Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 168
Quote
These are the "Secret" techniques. These are the Attacks that are blocks... If you ask about a straight punch as a block, I'd have you research "Cut Punching" the concept of punching along another persons arm line and pushing it away with the twist of your elbow to strike them.



Neasís answer.
This is good stuff. Please feel free to go into more detail

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#204250 - 11/28/05 03:02 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: NEAS]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:

Quote
These are the "Secret" techniques. These are the Attacks that are blocks... If you ask about a straight punch as a block, I'd have you research "Cut Punching" the concept of punching along another persons arm line and pushing it away with the twist of your elbow to strike them.



Neasís answer.
This is good stuff. Please feel free to go into more detail




No problem, Cut punching is an incredibly versitile technique... When someone throws a straight thrust punch, or even a hook punch... Well, ok. When someone throws an attack using their arms, you can cut punch it if you're skilled enough. Follow the arm line and muscle down to the armpit... You want to punch either above (if its a low technique) and down into the chest, or under and up into the throat (for a high technique)

The trick is reading body motions. Its one of the techniques behind the twist of the arm at the end of the attack. If you twist, you can throw their attack away from you and control them with that little nudge.

You can also do cut kicking, but it is insanely hard. I'd say three to five times harder (Depending on the technique) than the cut punching. The reason for this is the timing is harder to get, and the precision is harder. To cut kick, you actually use your knee to deflect the kick or do a thrust kick and use your calf to circumvent the attack.

Its hard to explain with words, I'd gladly do a video if I could. *laughs* But, I've tried to explain it as best as I can, if anyone has any questions just ask. I'll try to answer them as best as I can.
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#204251 - 11/28/05 03:19 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: CVV]
NEAS Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 168
Quote..
NEAS, I have an application I was never able to test for it's usability and value in fighting. If you want to rip off an ear you have to pull from the lower end upwards. Never from the top down.



Neas's answer
At one time where I came from the habit( not from myself) was to bite noses off. Many were caught and were sent to prison where they could boast about their performance. Many Attacks were with weapons or by large groups.


Thank you for that advice but most of my(legal) fights have ended with the opponent being knocked out. The kind of guys I fought would never have given me the chance to do as you suggest. They were to busy pounding me. However I would like to hear of some other fighting applications. This time related to kata perhaps? Not that I would ever use it.

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#204252 - 11/28/05 03:32 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: NEAS]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
NEAS

Giving you the benfit of the doubt here.

But I took the time to respond to your post--and I did so in a polite manner overlooking your 2 direct insults to me.

The proper thing to do here is to let me know that you read my post and that you understand that I was NOT attacking you.

Also would be nice if you would extend the same courtesy to me that I extended to you and say your sorry for being insulting.

Up to you of course---but given that english is new to you, I thought it best to make sure that you understood what is considered proper.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#204253 - 11/28/05 03:53 PM Re: Secret techniques in kata [Re: phoenixsflame]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
while people are getting their personal things sorted out, I actually do have 2 questions for everyone.

Did anyone read CVV's post where he explained that the thread is not so much about actual techniques so much as the notion of 'secret' itself? CVV is the author of the thread...his name is Chris. ...just wanted to make sure that I didn't misunderstand the nature of the thread again.

My other question is do you think its a growing trend for people to only read the end of threads or has it got to do with attention span? thanks again.

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