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#203888 - 11/15/05 11:21 AM Re: Application of Jeet Kune Do [Re: WuXing]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Quote by WuXing -

Quote:

I'm not sure that's true, that any martial art that works well will look like kickboxing. Boxing and kickboxing don't have any grabs or takedowns, and lots of effective styles use grappling. I wouldn't say grappling looks like boxing.




He was referring to stand up arts, obviously.
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#203889 - 11/15/05 12:58 PM Re: Application of Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
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etaks86 wrote - I read something one time i'm not sure where maybe on this forum, someone said once before that any martial art that works well in combat will look like boxing or kickboxing, it may not look the exact same and you'd be able to tell the differences between boxing and your combat art but they would still look alike maybe even very much alike. that's because any art that seeks to work well in combat will make it's self simple, precise, and effective. Any art that seeks to be the most effective will put simplicity above all other philosophies. anyway that's my opinion on the matter i could go on and on about almost anything because i'm the conversational type but i'll stop now.


My reply- I see your point and its a valid one but some arts are dimensional and serveral layers to them, I studing a Hard soft art that not only stresses close/hard fist but open hand/soft (being simple). My point is when I really being threaten I use open hand techniques to vital parts of the body that hampers seeing, breathing or standing, then back to a close fist or kickboxing/silat method or whatever the situation calls for.

These techniques don't look anything like boxing, alot of grabbing pushing and striking. I think your point was to have effective standup along with other ranges, and I agree with that.

I think the exceptance of ranges is one of the best concept that JKD gave to the MA community, most only stressed their range. Gracies BJJ helped to define these ranges mostly highlighted the grappling range along with the others.


Edited by Neko456 (11/15/05 01:01 PM)

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#203890 - 11/15/05 05:53 PM Re: Application of Jeet Kune Do [Re: Neko456]
JKogas Offline
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To clarify, I stated that (read closely), "all alive arts, trained / practiced in an alive manner will tend to look the same".

The definition of "alive" in this case is: Having the qualities of timing, motion and energy/resistance.

That is open to interpretation. Here I mean, the quality of aliveness will out of necessity (from the standpoint of the "energy/resistance" parameter), INCLUDE the use of grappling during kickboxing.

If you're NOT allowing the use of grappling during kickboxing training, are you truly training (empty hand) as realistically as possible? I would say no. And I doubt that anyone else would argue that point. I'd say that what you were doing was isolating a specific range. (And that's a good thing to do I might add)

If you're NOT allowing the use of grappling during kickboxing training, are you allowing all forms of energy/resistance during the training? I would say no. Again, you're isolating a specific range. You're limiting the forms of resistance that your training can include (though this is NOT to infer any sort of judgement on your training).

If by "alive" I mean, having real timing, real motion and real energy, then I think you HAVE to be integrating all ranges during training. I might add that by this definition, all three elements (timing, motion and energy) have to be present in order for training to be considered alive.

This is NOT to say that kickboxing cannot be "isolated" and trained alive - it CAN, but to a lesser degree.

What I am saying is that, (to further extrapolate the definition of aliveness here), to be truly alive, all ranges must be integrated. If and when they ARE, they will THEN all tend to "look" the same, which was the point I was trying to make earlier.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I just wanted to clarify the concept in my previous post.

Thanks!



-John

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