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#203568 - 11/10/05 09:31 PM How important is lineage?
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote by fellow martial artist

Quote:

We can trace our lineage back further than any other styles that I know.




So! Does this make you feel superior? Is it relevant to your potential?
What if I took a style that I can only trace back half as far? Is it only half as good?

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#203569 - 11/10/05 10:12 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Ed's snappy answers to that stupid statement:

1. "oh yeah!? well WE can trace all of our techniques back to self-defense."

2. "Yeah, but my Granddad could still kick your Granddaddys A$$."

3. "Funny, There were no birth records prior to 1850 except for royalty."

4. "I'm sure you're right....since you only know one style."

5. "Pre-Buddha?!"

6. "Did you just fart? I'm smellin somethin."

7. "They say lineages which don't fork aren't as healthy."

8. "Where did it lead back to? An ancient organization in Jersey paid to publish that stuff?"

9. "Not only can we trace, but we can color too!"

10. "Just put the pads on and we'll see how far back this 'lineage' of yours can go."

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#203570 - 11/10/05 10:41 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: BrianS]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
That's gotta have come from a ninjitsu guy - they're always arguing about lineage and masters in japan and a whole heap of other [wordydurd].

I guess lineage is important if you're a ninja, their history is pretty murky at best. You might end up tracing your lineage back to someone like Ashida Kim then it's gonna make you cry a lot over all of those wasted years of your life training in fake skills.


Edited by BrianS (11/10/05 10:51 PM)

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#203571 - 11/10/05 10:53 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Nope, weren't from no nunjustu guy!

He does a very good and populat style,shorinryu. His lineage goes back through master Kisay(sp?)
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#203572 - 11/10/05 11:05 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I tried tracing my Muay Boran lineage a few months ago. Well it kinda stopped after 4 masters.

I'll list it out now. . .
5) My master, Kru Praeng
4) My master's master, can't remember his name
3) Ketr Sriyapai
2) Ketr's daddy
1) Some old dude I can't pronounce his name
0) Some warrior that served the king as bodyguard for his elephant.

Actually, I don't care for lineage, as long as the art functions as it should. What do you think people thought when they first heard of Karate in USA? Nothing. . .

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#203573 - 11/10/05 11:33 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Fusei Kise studied under Hohan Soken.

The misplaced justification for people to say such things is since Hohan Soken bypassed the 'Japanification' of his Shorin style since he moved to S. America in the 30's and returned in the 50's (just going by memory, I don't remember the exact years).
That doesn't say anything more about lineage than say Higashionna's lineage. Unless they are a bushi-class snob I suppose. What it DOES say, is that Hohan Soken's version of Karate probably had the least amount of watering-down since it wasn't really influenced by the mass-production mentality of the 30's and 40's. There were hints of evidence that suggest there was some amount of holding back on some of the teachings-in effect watering it down for public consumption, but I certainly don't know for sure.
However, SINCE the 1950's he has had good and not so good students...some were not even students but claim to have been. From what I understand and heard, Fusei Kise is one of the legit good guys....but even some of HIS students are good/bad/ugly. and so on. It happens in every Art.

To be bragging (like your guy did) that his art is decended thru a well known Master doesn't say anything about the sensei who claim to have studied thru that Master.

Find out the sensei of this guy...BuDoc might know them.

The lineage argument of this particular style is a well known argument and a source of pride....sometimes it is misplaced. The only time when it is not misplaced is when the person holding that lineage doesn't brag about it.

all this is just from what I've read and heard from various sources...it's not first-hand (except the opinions about bragging ).

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#203574 - 11/10/05 11:42 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I agree on this one.

Lineage tells nothing of how the teacher is. . . He may have been a student of Mas Oyama, Eyal Yanilov, BL or whoever, but is he good like the teacher? That's another question.

I think lineage is only good sometimes, just to know who he studied under, but not if he's good teacher.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#203575 - 11/10/05 11:56 PM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: Taison]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

0) Some warrior that served the king as bodyguard for his elephant.




Well, I'm impressed.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#203576 - 11/11/05 12:02 AM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I respect his sensei,Don......6th dan,I'm drawing a blank. I'll get back to you on this tomorrow.
The guy I'm referring to is "sandan,been training ten years,knows 18 kata and all the weapons,and is completely saturated with knowledge." All his quotes. Also "cagefighters don't know what they're doing,I train to stay on my feet,I really don't think they can take me down.One guy tried it with me and I just fell on him." I said,well,you went down didn't you? (he is 6' and weighs over 300lbs)
Ya know,writing all of this down makes it seem REAL funny!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#203577 - 11/11/05 12:43 AM Re: How important is lineage? [Re: BrianS]
Diga Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
A long time ago when I started GoJuRyu. Back then it seemed that all of the M arts classes bragged and stuck firmly to their old masters explinations of their style.

After 6 years I decided to try some other styles while still doing GoJu atleast once a week.
Turned out that my GoJu got a lot better when I had some different additudes and ladditudes to consider.

Now I have put several years into 4 different styles and every one just added to my favorite - GoJu.
If I weren't so old I would add Brazilian Jujutsu.

I believe variety is the spice needed for all of life including Martial arts.

As someone else mentioned - it doesn't matter if your teacher learned from an age old master if he didn't really get it himself or doesn't know how to spread his knowledge to others.

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