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#202985 - 11/09/05 09:02 PM Re: Alternative health [Re: spectrum]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Perhaps "mechanical effect" was the wrong choice of words.

I was simply refering to the drawing out of the wax by some means.

No ear candling will not treat your otitis externa/media, or if you have caused some minor trauma by introducing a foreign object into the canal.

It can, however, remove impacted cerumen. And when used by someone that knows what they are doing, there is little risk of actually setting someone on fire. Sure it could happen, but it would be unusual.

This is by no way an endorsement for ear candling. Many OTC products will work as well. I don't prefer ear candling myself, but I have experienced it and it does work on cerumen impaction.

It DOES NOT work on sucking out bad energy!

Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

#202986 - 11/09/05 09:04 PM Re: Alternative health [Re: BuDoc]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Since you don't acknowledge the energy do you know?


It DOES NOT work on sucking out bad energy!


#202987 - 11/09/05 10:05 PM Re: Alternative health [Re: harlan]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
I acknowledge energy. The body is full of it in various forms. Neurons fire, the heart fires on electrical impulses, sodium/potassium pump, caloric conversion, etc. etc.

It just can't be good or bad.

I guess I should of said "It does not work on sucking out energy. Only cerumen."

IF there was such a thing as bad energy, I guess I would have my fair share. If candling DID suck out BAD energy, I must have more than my fair share, as it left me unchanged. Well except for cleaner ears!

Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

#202988 - 11/09/05 11:40 PM Re: Alternative health [Re: BuDoc]
PierrePressure Offline

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 173
Yeah. We used to do ear candles sometimes when I was younger, and it was a really, really weird experience. Like Page said, it sucks the stuff out, and generally you can hear better afterwards . However, I think we became concerned about the potential health risks, so the days of having a small, flaming tube thrust down my ear were over (I should mention that the flaming end was OUTSIDE my ear. Mom wasn't cruel to me or anything .)

As for chiropractors (sp?), I go to one pretty regularly, and my granddad was one. I know I felt better after my granddad "popped" me, but I think (and this is going to sound weird) he had a natural talent for it. I've been to two other chiropractors since he passed away (including my current one), and one guy was horrible (I felt like a pretzel after I left), and my current guy is really pretty good, but even he hurts sometimes. I don't think they work for everybody, but I know it helps alleviate the overall pain and discomfort I feel from having a messed up back. I think if you have some condition that seems to be helped when you go to your chiropractor, and if the guy doesn't break you and is gentle but effective, then I'd say chiropractors are a good thing. But if the quack is trying to diagnose something that obviously isn't within his realm of healing (the dude who said being adjusted can help with allergies probably was just trying to make an extra buck), and if he hurts too badly, then don't bother with 'em.

The one that sounds REALLY interesting is "psychic surgery." How the crud does that work? And what's that other one? Urine therapy or something? That's just nasty. But I have heard of people using urine to help clear up their acne. And I don't think it works, so you people who might be desperate enough to try it, don't .
"If life gives you lemons, you blow those lemons to bits with your laser cannon!" - Brak

#202989 - 11/10/05 10:35 AM Re: Alternative health [Re: PierrePressure]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Thanks for illuminating my head about ear I know I'll never try it.
The info I got about 'sucking out energy' came from a skeptics magazine. I don't remember much from the brief article, but physical tests were done and the pressure generated by the candle were not enough to remove anything that you don't need in there. however, as Harlan pointed out, somebody with ear infection/irritation would probably welcome any amount of relief and would be more sensitive to the effects. Personally, I'd visit a eyes,ears,nose and throat MD before an ear candlist 'professional' whos credentials might be merkier than say, a chiropractor.

my vote on this one: At best, it's an outdated treatment for ear irritations. At worst, its another means of losing money to someone selling placebo effects.
Ear candling:

psychic surgery - This is where the 'surgeon' 'operates' on the victim...err...I mean patient using his bare hands. He reaches in and plucks the tumor right from your body. cool.
Except when a group of scientists in 1975 studied the practice, they unanimously found that the procedure was fraudulent sleight-of-hand magicians tricks. In fact, professional magicians observed the procedure and within minutes could themselves perform the same divine feats of spiritual healing.
ingredients: Animal blood and small organic tissue, magician-like hands, gullible patients with cash.

In march 1984, Andy Kaufman made tabloid headlines by undergoing this procedure...after paying heafty sums of cash, the 'doctor' claimed to have removed all cancerous tissue......Kaufman died of lung cancer 2 months later.

For those who have faith in this procedure, proof is not needed....or heeded.

my vote: This doesn't even have a placebo's just outright fraud.

psychic surgery:

#202990 - 11/10/05 10:54 AM Re: Alternative health [Re: Ed_Morris]
Cord Offline

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Another perspective on the cons of chiropactors.

If you need to go to a chiropractor regularly (as many people swear by) this is a fair indication that you have a postural problem either caused by a congenital problem with the spine, or through poor posture/muscle imbalance.
Simply 'popping' things back in line, is a short term fix for a symptom, not an underlying cause.
Medical advice will help manage any long term problem with the spine, any postural related back pain is best treated with relevant exercise and stretching, combined with lifestyle analysis and ergonomic assessment of your workstation (presuming you have a sit down job).
Physiotherapy covers such treatment, and eventualy most people get signed off as recovered/rehabilitated. Chiropractors have repeat custom for years and years- a sure sign that the treatment doesnt really work as a cure.
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'

#202991 - 11/10/05 02:34 PM Re: Alternative health [Re: BuDoc]
MikeMartial Offline

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'm actually very surprised that chiropracticers aren't cast in a more positive light here. And BuDoc, wow, am I ever surprised at you. I know conventional MDs have differing opinions of Chiropracters, but your responses...

Did you ever meet anyone, who as a child, wanted to be a Chiropractor? I haven't either.

Well, I for one, have met many, and this includes myself. And, I also consider myself a "conventional" medical professional.

The profession is filled with guys that couldn't get into Medical School so they tried Dental School. Then Vetinary School. And then (So they could still be addressed as "Doctor") they found that they could be Chiropractors.

This is such an unprofessionally negative, dead wrong assumption. No more needs to be said on that.

Now, onto the rest....I can say with all honesty that I don't know if chiropracters as a whole have a standard governing body regarding treatment modalities and patient care; I would hope they do. I'll ask my chiro next time I'm in.

Opinions are largely based on personal experience--BuDoc, you've obviously had some bad experiences with chiropracters. And that's bound to happen. But blatently labeling the whole profession as "quacks"?

There's a few ER docs I know that I wouldn't let treat a dead cat for fear of doing more harm. I have watched, with great surprise, as some of the worst emergency medicine I had ever seen being practiced on unknowing patients unravel before my eyes.

I would bet you too have seen some physicians practice some questionable medicine. But did that make you question emergency medicine as a whole?

Now, does this make all ER physicians crackpots? Nope.

Do all ER physicians go to fly-by-night schools to get their degrees? Nope

Would my assumption that all Er physicians have no clue, are dangerous to patients, and are generally harmful care practitioners be dead wrong? Yes.

Ok....still with me? Good. There's a bit more.

Now you can safely assume that I've had postive results from seeing a chiropracter.

In fact, I had immeditate relief from a back injury sustained at work; the conventional tx of muscle relaxants and anti-inflammatories prescribed by an emergency physician hadn't done much except dull my senses and slur my speech.

I was reluctant to go to a chiropracter because what I had heard..."go once, you'll always go"...."they get their degree froma crackerjack box"...."they do more harm the good"... etc etc.

Long story short, I had immediate relief.

Have I gone back since? Let me answer that by asking "Do martial artists get injuried?" My chiro was a godsend when I injured my hamstring, shoulder, back, etc etc.

But do I HAVE to go, now that I've started treatment? Will I ALWAYS have to go?

Man, I don't know where this weird rumor ever started. Probably not by someone being treated by a chiro. In my case, all of my injuries have been acute, so the treatment length has been shorter. Yes, there's mutliple treatment involved. I'm not going to explain the "why", because that's not what this thread is about.

I know there was a study done of the effectiveness of chiropractic treatment in the relief of back pain just a few years back...I don't have it in front of me, or the exact details, but it compared a few different treatments, including rx medication, PT, chiro, and massage. Chiro came out on top as the most effective.

Yes, yes I know, it's only one study.

Ok, points I DO agree with you on:

I would never, EVER assume that a chiropracter could replace childhood immunizations. That is just plain bad patient care.

I also would never assume that a chiropracter could, or should treat any medical condition like allergies, diverticulitis, or angina (I did have a chirporacter tell me he could treat this once. I promptly left).

Yes, there are some "quacks" out there making insane claims. The one chiro I saw that made the claim about treating angina was about 70 years old, and his degree looked like it was from the 1950s. As a contrast....

....the chiro I see today is in her late 20s. She graduated in 2002, and was a former university hockey player. She specializes in treating athletes, and is certified in Active Release Therapy.

And never once has she mentioned energy pathways, enhanced immunity, feng shui, or draining sinus cavities.

She's also never even threatened to stick a burning candle into my ear. God Forbid.

If this post seems a bit disjointed, it may very well be; I've been writing it piece by piece as I run around the house this morning.

And, on that note, I'll let it stand as is.
"You do not truly know someone until you fight them." - Seraph, The Matrix Reloaded

#202992 - 11/11/05 03:04 AM Re: Alternative health [Re: Ed_Morris]
Chanters Offline

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
I suffered with knee pain for 6 years from the age of 11. I went to the GP who basically told me if I still had it in a years time then it's not growing pains like he diagnosed. I went for x-rays, had an MRI scan, had physio, went to see a podiatrist and finally went to see a knee specialist. None of them could help me. This took 3.5 years. I got quite depressed as I was really into sports and played in teams but my knees stopped me most of the time. I couldn't go out with my friends much and ended up plonked on the sofa with a bag of frozen peas strapped to my knees.

My mum then mentioned reflexology which she had been told about by a friend and at first, I was very skeptical. How can someone rubbing my feet actually help my knees? After a month, I noticed a huge change. The swelling went down, they didn't hurt as much but the pain hadn't gone completely. I had reflexology sessions twice a week for about 2 months, then 1 a week. After a year, the problem had almost dissappeared completely. Only when I had been walking for long periods there'd be a chance that my knees would play up again. The last time I had reflexology was about 2 years ago and now I go to the gym twice a week and aikido twice a week and my knees don't give me any bother.

There are obviously the fruadsters out there which are no good, but there are a few gems and in my case, she really sorted me out where our orthodox methods couldn't.

I found a definition of reflexology for this thread:

Reflexology is a science that deals with the principle that there are reflex areas in the feet and hands which correspond to all of the glands, organs and parts of the body.

Stimulating these reflexes properly can help many health problems in a natural way, a type of preventative maintenance. Reflexology is a serious advance in the health field and should not be confused with massage. When we talk about 'stimulating' reflexes on the feet and hands, we are actually rousing energy that produces a reaction in a specific organ or gland.

The idea behind reflexology is not new - in fact, it was practiced as early as 2330 B.C., by the Egyptian culture. Reflexology as we know it today was first researched and developed by Eunice Ingham, the pioneer in this field and founder of the International Institute of Reflexology®. Her book on the subject, "Stories the Feet Can Tell/Have Told Thru Reflexology", was first published in 1938 and is still available today through the International Institute.

#202993 - 11/11/05 07:18 AM Re: Alternative health [Re: Chanters]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
on Reflexology:
"One reason foot massage may be so pleasurable and is associated with significant improvement in mood is that the area of the brain that connects to the foot is adjacent to the area that connects to the genitals. There may be some neuronal overlapping."

"double-blind test w/study"
Shows that Reflexology has same results as massage....basically, it makes you feel good.

nothing wrong with that...although, I bet a 'reflexologist' in an office gets paid waaaay more than a foot massage at a mall.

#202994 - 11/11/05 08:02 AM Re: Alternative health [Re: Ed_Morris]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Lets clear the air with this.

There are over 1000 people registered here counting all of the lurkers.

At least one of them is going to have a supposed healing effect to everything on the list.

That does not make it science. It does not make it good medicine.

People want to belive that something can make them better when all else has failed.

I once saw a healthcare worker on the Ivory coast who had run out of medication, and was in real dire straits/desperation mode. Out of that desperation as a palliative measure, he gave a group of very sick people tic-tacs

Guess what??? about a third of the group got better in 36 hours. Would they have gotten better any way?? Was it something else that they were given around the same time?? Hogwash!! It was the tic-tacs that made them better. Please don't tell this to US drug companies! It would put all that R&D in the toilet

Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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