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#20291 - 02/15/04 07:35 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Therein lies some confusion.

JKD AS a philosophy, chooses the "arts" of which you're going to be training in (after all, you've got to have something to fight with, right?

The arts (delivery systems) that JKD draws upon all have something in common with each other. The is important to establish "flow" throughout the ranges. For example, in boxing you keep your elbows in tight. In wrestling, you keep your elbows in tight. In Brazilian jiu-jitsu, you keep your elbows in tight (especially on the bottom). The structure is the same througout each.

JKD's philosophy stresses ability throughout all ranges. Thus, you'll see JKD guys fighting and rolling around on the ground, in the clinch and standing. It's the attribute of adaptability that one is concerned with.

Certainly, other arts stress the same points. That's all well and good. JKD is not better nor worse than any other art. What is important is how you TRAIN the art. That's all that really matters.

However, JKD places emphasis on economy of motion, a tight defensive structure, simple aggressive fight plan (the RAT method, as it is termed now), etc.

The best thing to do is to LOOK at the different approaches to training and fighting that these different methods have. All of the internet typing in the WORLD isn't going to adequately describe the differences. All one needs to do is look at how people are training to see what I'm talking about. Visit ANY school.

This week, I'm paying a visit to the Japanese Karate Institute in Winston-Salem just to watch a typical session. I'll do this once a week for a few weeks. We'll see how differnt it is to the local aikido school, the local TKD school, the local wing chun school, and finally MY school/gym.

I'll post about what I find.


-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 02-15-2004).]

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#20292 - 04/26/04 10:33 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Ninja Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 10
See, i find it very hard to believe that people actually think that Bruce Lee wasn't a fighter. To whoever questions any Martial Artist's ability to fight, let me ask you one question: If you can defeat you oponent with your mind before even the first punch is thrown, are you less of a fighter than soemone who has to punch and kick his way to victory? And regarding Bruce lee, anyone who says he wasnt a fighter should know that he had reached such a position in his training and life that he didnt need to fight to actually "fight". He knew he was well capable of fighting phyically, so he moved on to the next level of Martial Arts.

Isnt that what eveyr martian arts teach? Rememebr, Martial Arts were not meant for only physical defence and/or offence. They were meant a a means to self discipline and a way of life.

If the doubters, who seem to know all about what it means to be a "fighter" take the time to look into the Martial Arts more deeply, they will see that the eventual goal of all Martial Arts is to reach a state of spiritual enlightment. And that is reached through training and focusing the body.

So for Clearance purposes, Bruce Lee had passed the point where he needed to use brute force to win a fight. His demeanor and mental strenght were enough to win any fight. P.S. If he did get into any physical fight, we all know that he would kick the other guys ass cuz Bruce Lee was most probably the fastest and most accurate when it came to delivering blows. His body was capable of taking lots of damge, so i dont really see how he is is not a fighter.

I hope that answers all the questions people had about bruce lee and whether or not he was a fighter, because remember, a ifghter isnt a perosn who cna throw a punch or kick, anyone can do that, a fighter is soemone who has the physicaland mental balance and power to overcome any problems or any obstacles in his/her path.

If you need another example of a fighter, look at Terry Fox. He battled cancer and ran for miles and miles till he couldnt fight it anymore. You cant say that he wanst a fighter because he fought his amputation and cancer and ran all those miles. SO i hope there are no more misconceptions about what a fighter is and whether or not bruce lee was a fighter. Peace.

Ninja

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#20293 - 04/27/04 01:32 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]

In addition a good amount of what is commonly attributed to Lee was in fact written by others decades even centuries prior to Lee's birth.

According to some sources his famous "be like water" quote had been said almost verbatim by Motobu decades prior to Lee and was the concept itself can be traced to the swordsman Mushasi centiures earlier.
It goes even father back than that in China.
[/QUOTE]
In the Tao of JKD by Bruce, one of the very first things said is "this is nothing special. This is nothing new and people looking for the "inner secret" will be lost upon it."

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#20294 - 04/27/04 06:30 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
parttimer Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 14
Loc: United Kingdom
Now i am confused-dont take much.

I always thought bruce lee had to fight certain fighters from his own country in order to teach to westeners? Sorta like a death match of sorts-is this just hype?

cheers

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#20295 - 04/27/04 06:34 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
parttimer Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 14
Loc: United Kingdom
I thought bruce had to fight in types of secret deathmatch against fighters from his own country just to prove he could teach westeners-is this all hype?

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#20296 - 04/27/04 10:28 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
ken harding Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
As far as I am aware, Bruce Lee had no documented fight record. As such, I find it interesting that a lot of BL fans quote him as saying would you learn swimming from someone who can't swim.

Seems like people provide quotes with a slight bias to justify their own arguments.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Learned to swim as a result of lessons from my old man who could not at swim at the time but could teach. Another one of the best swimming coaches I ever saw could not swim either.

Ability to teach is NOT based upon ability to do. Of course a demo helps but it is not essential. i'm no rabid BL fan by the way...just the swimming allusion got me because of personal history.

As for Bruce...he was unusual unqiue and clever. A phenomenon though how much was media hype and how much was real we will never really know.

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#20297 - 04/27/04 02:25 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
GrandMasterSimon Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
As far as I know, Bruce Lee was in competition I think around in the 60's, Bruce was involved in Ed Parkers Karate tournament. There were alot of highly skilled masters there, those who challenged Bruce Lee, and lost. This is from my recollection of facts I heard from others students and pictures, I am not certain this really happened.
First of all, going back to the original post, JKD was not any type of fighting style, it really was'nt. JKD was a philosophy of Bruce Lee's fighting methods and training. Bruce Lee's original kung-fu style was Ving Tsun. Bruce Lee was an experienced Martial Artist who realized that alot of the traditional methods in Wing Chung, were'nt really effective and alot of it probably would not work in a real life situation. So, this idea in mind, he created JKD.

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#20298 - 04/27/04 02:35 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
Question EVERYTHING!


-John
[/QUOTE]

JKD is weapons based kali sticks, nunchaku, stopped developing when bruce lee died. Developed by others after his death, it was only beginning, no ground work, grappling stances for lower centre of gravity. Bai joing basic stance too limited. Weapons first, no weapons if no other choice. Did joe lewis use weapons then he could have sparred with Bruce lee. Chuck norris or joe lewish would have their reputation and credentials as top fighters challenged.
Joe lewis and chuck Norris know class when they see it.

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#20299 - 04/27/04 04:32 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
As someone has already said he could obviously teach and that in the long run is more important in than fighting ability.

He was also the first really well known MAist, a bit like Elvis & rock & roll. Not the first but the first household name. In that sense he is always going to have a semi mythical status.

I propose a separate section on the forum for BL questions so the rest of can talk about more interesting stuff!!!

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#20300 - 05/15/04 10:03 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jeet Kune Do is the philosophy of the art that the late Bruce Lee taught. The actual art itself is a modified form of Wing Chun. I think it is a misnomer to identify his fighting style by the name of the philosophy that governs it.

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